In the timestamped video above, LI Joe speculates that the stance/element system might be similar to -isms or grooves in previous Capcom titles.
What we do know about stances/elements so far:
They require a full EX bar to activate
You can cancel the animation of a special move into a stance/element activation
You can lose your element if you get hit during startup, or knocked down
Two EX bars
Allows you to guard break an opponent with a special move
Maybe adds more hitstun to attacks?
Seems to disappear after the use of one special move
Three EX bars
Grants access to “double” special moves (two kikokens, two sets of lightning legs)
Does not disappear after the use of a special move
*As of right now we don’t know if the amount of EX bars is tied to character or element.
Now, my personal opinions about this (from the Street Fighter V General Discussion thread):
What does everyone think about the speculations going around regarding this mysterious mechanic? Do you believe it’s more likely to be permanently tied to a character, or will they give us the freedom of choosing an element to our liking? And finally, what kind of elements and effects would you like to see in the game?
I honestly think you guys are reading way too much into this.
The ink and watercolor effect s an aesthetic choice. My bet is we will see other things like maybe oil paint, pencil sketch, charcoal, etc. The ink and watercolor effects seemed to occur even when the characters were not powered up (they happened during EX moves for example).
The power up (lightning hands because Ryu, blue ki hands because Chun Li’s ki is blue) is just that, a power up like CC or Excel from SF Ex. We know that the power up (which costs the whole ex bar) boosts your special moves and super moves in the same way using just a portion of the bar turns a single special into its ex version. It may also allow you to cancel stuff into stuff.
Also notice the EX bar was called EX bar, not Element bar or Instinct bar or whatever crazy theories are being thrown around here.
Ex Move = Consumes 1 segment of the EX bar to power up 1 single special move
Ex Stance = Consumes whole ex bar to power up potentially several specials and/or your super moves (possibly also bestow special properties to normals)
Ink/Watercolor = art style, could probably mean we see other art styles like oilpainting, pencil sketch, charcoal, etc.
In SF4, there’s something called the “revenge gauge”, but you’re certainly not using it to perform “revenge combos”.
Remember, this is all speculation. Say what you want, but you can not deny that both stances are very dissimilar from each other. It’s likely that every character will have their own unique stance tied to them, but there’s always a possibility of a sort of “stance selection”, considering how different the two we’ve seen are.
No I actually can deny that. Both stances are functionally the same, they power up said character’s moves. The length of the bar is most likely related to balance like in SF3, which isn’t a stretch considering how much SF5 reminds us of SF3.
The reason Chun Li’s bar lasts longer is because her bar is longer (even after a special move). Ryu can power up more often but the duration of the power up is clearly less. Using specials or supers during the power up shortens the duration of the power up. This is why Ryu’s power up seemed to disappear after 1 special.
The aspect that is unique is how the specials/supers are powered up, but this isn’t new. Ex moves are not the same for everyone, some ex moves give double fireballs (Gouken) and other’s just give new properties like invincibility. So Chun Li getting 2 fireballs and Ryu getting guard break is not some amazing new feature.
As I said, I really think some people here have gone over board with their ideas when the truth, as is the case almost always, is far simpler and more elegant.
That’s obvious though. It’s like saying “All Ultras are functionally the same. You use the Revenge Gauge to cause a cinematic.” Nobody is denying that they’re functionally the same.
This is still evidence that stances are different from one another. Length of bar/duration of stance are both important. Even if they do turn out to be character specific meter length, it still affects their stances.
You basically just said “All stances function the same way in that they power up moves, but give them unique properties” which everyone knows already. This thread is for discussing those unique properties.
Also, simply just “powering up” the moves would make no sense anyway. In the gameplay footage we can clearly see that there ARE EX moves that are completely different from the “powered up” moves performed during the stances. No matter how you look at it, there’s absolutely no logic in implementing an entire system that just gives a character more EX moves.
It clearly gives characters more than ex moves, it also gives them access to their ex super moves at least. Also show me an example of an ex move that functions differently during powered up ex stance if you don’t mind.
Yes Ultra combos are all functionally/fundamentally the same, they are all Ultra special moves that require revenge meter to execute. The minor properties of each individual ultra make each ultra unique but they do not change what an ultra fundamentally and functionally is, which is the same for EVERY character.
Going back to my point, while we don’t know all the fine details yet, there is no logical basis whatsoever for an element driven power up like you and others are suggesting. Your claims are nothing more than wishful thinking at this point. The water you speak of is watercolors, and the lightning/electricity you refer to is Ryu’s denjin ki energy that we were introduced to in SF3 but also saw glimpses of before.
I assume you mean the difference between the stance specials, and the EX specials.
Here’s Chun-Li’s EX Lightning Legs. Note the knockdown ender.
Here’s Chun-Li’s “stance” Lightning Legs (complete with stance activation). Note the second set of Lightning Legs identical to the first set.
The only other “stance” special we’ve seen of Chun’s is her fireball, which sends out two fireballs one after another. This is why many assume that her stance has the effect of “doubling” her moves.
When Ryu performs his hadoken during his stance, it looks identical to his normal hadokens. On the last hit, however, the fireball guard breaks the opponent.
The “logical basis” is that from the tiny amount of footage we’ve seen, we saw that both character’s stances have different properties to them and they both have different visual effects. Nobody knows what the system is called yet, so we’re just going off of what we have the most of; visuals.
What claims? I never once said this game was for sure going to include stance (or v-trigger, as the rumor suggests) selection, or that it would be going with an element theme on the stances. If you read my opening post, I even outright said it seems unlikely. Again, emphasis on speculation. You know, the thing that occurs every time the first footage of a game is released to the public.
Fair enough. But do consider that Capcom intends to introduce double ex moves in the new omega mode SF4. Ex moves that require more than 1 stock of meter and are even better versions of specials, some with completely new finishers and properties.
Would it be a stretch to believe that the Ex stance versions of specials are simply better versions of Ex moves, and are the equivalent of Omega Mode’s new double ex moves? Because that’s what those Chun Li gifs you posted look to me.
Thank you for going through the trouble of posting examples btw, appreciate it.
I see the charge-up moves being unique per character. This would tie into what Ono said about characters being “more unique than you would imagine”.
Just imagine what kind of balancing nightmare it would be to have a universal set of power up modes you can select from for all characters. It would make a lot more sense if each one was character specific. Like maybe Charlie’s power-up would allow his sonic booms to do massive hitstun. How would you implement something like that if it were just a universal set of power ups? How would that benefit non-projectile characters?
How about this: What if the power up states are all unique to each character, but every character would be able to choose between a couple unique ones specific to them… similar to how you can choose your super art in 3rd Strike?
EDIT: The visual flairs could signify which one of the power-up states the other person chose. Like “oh, Ryu has his power-up 2 selected. Which one is that again? Oh it’s the lightning one, that’s the power up that gives him Denjin/Guard Break.”
No problem. I figure it’d be convenient for anyone else that’d want to see a comparison of stance and EX specials.
Hmm, I don’t think that these stances would only affect certain moves. I honestly think Ryu’s Shoryuken and Tatsumaki have the potential to guard crush in this mode as well, but we haven’t seen footage of it yet.
I could see how it would be tough to balance though. I’m imagining a grappler using Chun-Li’s “double” stance. Would someone like Zangief just do two SPDs in a row? lol.
It’s an interesting thought for sure, but I feel like it’s more likely they’ll stick to giving players the choice of two different Revenge (Ultra) Combos.
Honestly, I don’t think we’ll be seeing everyone having access to the same set of stances. Especially based on the comments about giving characters more uniqueness. Even if there is some sort of stance/v-trigger select, it’s still probably going to be unique stances per character.
I posted this elsewhere, but in my view the biggest indicator that stances are character specific is the visual effect they give.
I can’t see Juri or Ken for example glowing blue. It just wouldn’t look right.
Also (even though we only have two characters to go off of at this point) each character’s stance seems to fit well with their archetype. As previously mentioned, I can’t see Geif doing a double SPD when powered up for example.
Making these character specific does allow for each character to be better balanced (versus selectable stances) and allow for each character to be, “more unique than we could imagine”.
I do however think it is weird that they have different length meters if the power-ups are character specific.
Wouldn’t it be harder to balance if it was character specific? It’s a bit like every character having their own “Genei-Jin” style power up but far more crazy, like if Ryu was the only character who could guard crush; it would be easy for their to be a Yun of this game with so may characters potentially wielding something that’s an ability that is just far greater than anyone else’s. It would feel far more balanced to me for them to be element specific and give every character a move that can wield this property, except only when using the appropriate element. It means that if Ryu for example became so good to the point that he could just guard crush you and build half his meter back in the following combo, at least then there’s a cast full of characters that could potentially do the same thing.
I suppose one character with an element is better than a whole cast of characters with all elements, so it may just end up easier, but I feel it would be better over all if they did it like that.
It’s just the stuff that I mentioned, and really you could look at character specific power-ups as just having a more complex and developed moveset per character. Here’s the perfect opportunity to get away from clone characters and really make each character unique.
If power-up types are selectable I would think it would be harder to balance all of the different characters with all of the different power-up types.
Some unique character traits could be: guard break, free EX moves, extra chip damage, extra stun, custom combo, stagger on counter hit, more damage, damage over time, blocked normals take real life (not gray life), etc.
Personally I think either way would be cool but, the more that I think about it the more I want it to be a character specific thing.
Can you guys think of any other unique properties for different power-up modes? Or I am retarded for thinking this would be cool?
Aside from the ones I’ve already mentioned, I can think of maybe something like “Soul” (Maybe Rose, granted she somehow makes it in), where you essentially steal life from your opponent with each special move. I feel like poison is another obvious choice, with maybe a character such as Blanka harnessing it. I’m sure right now we can all bet on a grappler having a super armor effect.
Again, these could just be visual effects and have no impact on what the stance actually offers. Ken could have fire in his stance of course, but the effect on his special moves might be something completely unrelated to fire. I mean, when we think of a sort of “water” element, we don’t exactly think of attacks being doubled as the case is with Chun-Li.
Nevertheless, in a game with a wide variety of characters, it’s definitely going to be interesting what kind of unique stances each character will get.
Can you guys not see that the “water” you speak of is actually and unmistakably “watercolors” and are meant to mirror the Japanese ink? If you’re familiar with watercolors you’d see that it is. The splats should be a give away and the color (water is not blue).
The blue glow on Chun Li’s hands is her ki which has been blue since SF2 and is probably not related to the watercolors VFX. Same is true with Ryu’s denjin electricity.
I’ll concede the following though: if we get more than 1 super art then the ink, watercolor could correspond to the super art. Like Super Art 1 gets 3 EX stocks and is represented by Japanese Ink, Super Art 2 is represented by Watercolors and may have 2 EX stocks. But this isn’t the same as an element or ism, it’s almost identical to what we got in SF3 with the addition of a revenge meter and a power up that can empower super arts and ex moves.
This would be the same across the board for all characters though (e.g. Ryu’s Super Art 2 would be watercolors and so would Chun Li’s).
Note the play on words. Super “Art”, ink and watercolors are both tools in the fine arts.