vintage, thank you for kicking my ass in zbattle
NGBC won’t go anywhere in the states without a massive overhaul. If SNK can’t even be bothered to update Neo Geo era sprites and hire a knowledgable PS2 programmer to fix the load times, American gamers won’t be bothered to pay for it. The stupidly cheesy boss characters wouldn’t really go over too well either.
And as for Tenka - why would Tenka need to come into its own? Isn’t the whole point of Tenka to be the last evolution of SSV? Releasing that instead of trying to sucker people into paying $30 for craptastic SSV would have been a hell of a better business decision.
You know what would be great for fighting? Microsoft should buy SNK from whoever picked it up during the bankruptcy. Microsoft would then be able to pump a ton of money into bringing the SNK game art into the twenty-first century, and keep the SNK games exclusive to the 360, which might actually get Japanese gamers to buy the system. US ports would be guaranteed and timely, which would attract Japanophiles in the US/EU to the 360. And Sony would have to retaliate, either by encouraging Capcom to get some new stuff out, or by pushing some of the hot new Japanese fighters to the PS2.
Of course, it won’t happen, because Microsoft is too busy trying to justify buying Rare when Nintendo didn’t even want them anymore. But I can dream…
Had it not been for the very existence of Mina, and the fact that she can basically murder anyone in a groove that does not include a hop, I would agree with that.
I got here late but I’ll have my say in the conversation. I also read that blog on the home page and it pretty much was partially true but it did seem like an advocacy for older games. His statements really could be applied to any competitive game. It could apply to sports games, racing games, party games, anything that is competitive and in depth. Whenever you play against healthy competition, you could always play games over and over again. For example, I couldn’t tell you how much I played Tecmo Super Bowl. The only real reason you get a new sports game, whether it is football, racing, basketball, baseball, hockey, and so on is to get your update, tweak the gameplay, take out the glitches and your good. Quite Frankly that is what Street Fighter 2- super turbo was, that is what the alpha series was and so on.
Lets get one thing straight, while people will eat up the ocasional street fighter anniversary edition, or a rerelease of street fighter alpha 3, or even a downloaded super turbo from XBOX LIVE, but a good chuck of those people are people who already love fighting games and are on these boards. The general public though, simply won’t buy old games just because they were good games. Forever we were complaining about street fighter 2 getting stale, it was always, why can’t we get a street fighter that looks like the alphas eventually looked like, or why can’t we get it to look like SF3 eventually look like, or why can’t we get it to look as good as guilty gear look like, and finally now, Why can’t we get a street fighter to look like what a great next generation 2D game would look like. I could easily see near animelike high resolution images just with the street fighter style or an updated version of it’s gameplay. You don’t need 3D, quite simply, until I see it done, I’ll have to say that a projectile based game simply is incompatible with 3D.
Was Capcom Fighting Evolution a bad game??? NO. in fact it was pretty balanced. It had the gameplay of the games that you all considered the best of 2D fighting. But why couldn’t capcom update all the graphics. Why did we have to deal with 10-15 year old sprites. Why did we lose frames for 3rd strike characters. Why couldn’t there be AT LEAST 8 representatives from each game. So what if balance was thrown off a bit. If you are going to make a compilation you better have tons of representatives of it. IF you are going to make a great balanced original fighter then have it be of one game and balance it from that one game.
That leads me to 3rd Strike. Fighting game fans are going to eventually find a gem in a game. So the slow start to it was gonna turn around. But what third strike never did was catch on to the general public. Yeah a few more got in touched with it with the anniversary collection but not enough. WHY? by then an anniversary collection was simply a treat for those who loved the series it essentially at least a 5 year old game. When it did come out though, Capcom had already lost it’s large base by rehashing the same stuff. Also Why the need for a new cast? You’ll never see Tekken, DOA, VF, MK, SNK games, Guilty gear, and so one with a whole new cast. Rule number 1 in Fighting games. You never let STORYLINE be the cause of a drop in a character(s). This rule is also expanded in that you never BUY a fighting game because of it’s storyline. Why Remy when We could have gotten Guile, if you want to make Remy, give him some new stuff but don’t replace a beloved character for another one that you hope people will learn to love. We could understand a drop of a character or two, but never a drop of a whole Cast of characters with the exception of one or two. If your gonna do that, Just name the game a different game and set it up as a new IP. I guess in this case graphics didn’t help the game, which proved that it really isn’t ONLY about graphics for the casuals.
A few months ago, we were eagerly hoping that Capcom would announce SF4 at the tokyo game show. Unfortunately that wasn’t the case. Capcom is a large enough company that they could easily port their old games for some cheap money but if they want at least HALF of their old fanbase back, it’s about time they release a totally new game. IT could be a crossover type like CFE but it can’t be with outdate sprites and boring sound. It also has to have some old favorites in it. If SF4 is to be made it better have key guys missing from the SFIII cast back.
As throw in my 2cents for 3D base games as well since I have the time.
3D games aren’t in as bad a shape as 2D games are. In 2005 Soul Calibur 3 (a glitched game) sold about 400,000 in the US. Tekken 5 also sold about the same numbers. We know that since it is essentially a launch title DOA4 will probably gov over a million. Previous Tekken games have sold over a million or gotten close to it. Virtua Fighter 4 and evolution together sold over 500,000 (i can’t remember the exact number but I do remember VF4 being around the 3-4 hundred mark and evolution being in the mid 100s mark. Launch Fighting games have done well for the XBOX, XBOX360, PS2, PS1, and Dreamcast, all sold over 1 million copies. The true fighting game fans still play their favorites just like any 2D game, but unfortunately, for the general public or minor fighting game fans, the games do grow stale once you’ve had epic battles against a brother, his and your friends, and dorm mates over and over again. And NO Most regular people aren’t going to drop their lives to go enlist in some fighting game tournament held miles sometimes hundred or thousands of miles away. Most people will play with brother, friend, dormates, school kid who was talking junk, and if there isn’t online, that is about as far is it will go. Tekken 6 will come out, Virtua Fighter 5 will come out, I could guarantee that if any of them is a launch title or close to one like DOA was, it will also continue the legacy of great selling fighters on a new system. And seeing that Namco and Sega is involve, You can pretty much make it a given that the fighting game will be a great in depth one at the least and not some all graphic reject like Mortal Kombat is.
I’ll use soul Calibur III as an example, I remember looking at those 1up interviews before the game came out and the directors were talking about how they wouldn’t have online but they feel that the single player would be enough to keep people hooked and be a replacement for the lack of online. Well, while it wasn’t bad to go through the single player, and it was actually quite fun trying to get to night terror and see everyone’s ending. Rule number 1 states that Fighting games are not played for storyline. Storyline may add to the liking of the game but if you want people to play and continue to play your game, there has to be an online component. Work on it, maybe it will turn out bad this time but you’ll learn a lesson and things will be much better for the next generation game. Finally, To make matters worse, YOu release a BUG filled, memory card corrupting, impossible to update, one console only, no online game that further pushed away the hard core gamers by not having an Arcade release. (Luckily, they’ve decide to release that arcade version for the fans).
With Next Generation graphics, I could easily see everyone in love with Soul Calibur 4. Soul Calibur 1-3 were essentially the same generation of games, a whole leap forward in graphics combine with the fast and exciting gamplay of SC will definitely be good news for the next system. Tekken 6 has the name and if it is a launch title I could easily see it as a hugh seller. The casual fan already know about tekken so a whole new one will easily sell. I do also think that Tekken should go back to having the option for Tag in it’s next installment. In fact, I think All fighting games now should have that option. It was a way that fighting games were allowed to evolve and I see No reason why it was abandon. As for Virtua Fighter, I KNOW they will stick to the pure technical fasion to their games. And thus, the masses will simply not buy it. But the fighting game fans will eat it up and I personally can’t wait for the new one. Tag would be great but I doubt it.
So in conclusion, I think the 3D fighting game scene is actually pretty healthy. There are at least 4 franchises that are sucessful on it. When SF2 was around really only it and MK were much success in the US. In fact, MK: D actually sales wise was very successful and it will be interesting to see what their next gen game will be. I think the fighting game scene, even though 2D fanatics won’t admit it, is being dragged down by the lack of any new 2D games. It’s like RPGs being only Turn base FF style without the real time Zelda types. Both of which make a healthy set of RPGs for consoles. If you only had Zelda types coming out, we would agree that the RPG scene was in a state of despair as well. Imagine having 4-5 sucessful 3D games and 4-5 successful 2D games being released. with 8-10 healthy franchises, no one would complain about the fighting game genre. With the exception of maybe guilty gear, There haven’t been any real NEW AGE (non rerelease or anniversary types, or compilation of OLD games presented as if it is new) 2D games to come out in some 5-6 years that is even worth playing. In fact, other than guilty gear, forgetting about worth playing, I don’t think there have been Any new or original 2D games since that time.
Yeah, its odd that sometimes the best things in life are free!
i just had my first read of this thread, so i’ll randomly throw out my thoughts…
Regarding feedback systems. Negative feedback systems will never ever work in an environment full of 13 year olds and insecure top rankers. I’ve beaten A - SS 3S players online (after getting beasted for 10 rounds) and when I do, they’ll drop and sometimes leave me negative feedback. My only suggestion is before the first battle, both players agree to a minimum of X rounds, if they play the agreed amount, the winner gets 15% more (points). if one player drops (sore loser, lag, actual disconnect) they get rounds played * -20%.
To mr. cleveland, it’s sad you lived on the east side. we had about 3 - 4 decent arcades on the west side. Two of which I know were open until i left state in 2000.
And regarding making a new fighter that is easy (DOA4) to the masses, but has enough depth (time will tell, but i’m worried), this is the best we’re going to get for a while. CFE/CFJ is a decent game, but it doesn’t do anything for me. The backgrounds look worse than WW, and the fighting system is nothing to write home about.
Okay, back to drinking. Just be nice to the new people. That’s the one thing you could do to help out the most.
if u take a random kid 2 a 3s machine and t5 machine,and ask him 2 choose which game he wants 2 play,he’ll most likely choose t5.thats jus the way is it.y r conoles bein made?2 improve 2d games?hell no-they 4 improving 3d games.u’l struggle getting halo playas 2 play a 2d game-no matter how gd it is,or how much skill it requires.i luv 3s,but the problem with it is that its not as user friendly as tekken.thats jus an inherrent prob wit 2d fighters.
escobuu and pozerwolf-dont u dare turn this thread into a flame heaven
Why can’t SNK advertise their games? Oh, right, because they have yet to release an Atomiswave game to console (I dunno if MI is anything or not; Too many people consider Neogeo hardware outdated). If they can just bring their Atomiswave games to 360 with an online system like DOA4, combined with the advertising, there’s nothing to complain about. These games are NEW, so outdated stuff my ass, and these games CAN be played at high levels and are mildly accessible. There, everything is better.
I still don’t have high hopes for the future of 2D fighters. Capcom will continue to release rehases of old games and Arc Systems will still be adding Xs and symbols into their Guilty Gears instead of making a real sequal to GGX. Although the GG sprites are good, there’s a time for change. I mean, why can’t they make a NEW Guilty Gear? I mean, at this rate, Slash won’t be released in the US (mainly because Arc Systems/Sammy doesn’t like releasing updates. However, if another company does…), and some people will get tired to he game eventually, and then, well, you kow the rest…
No one should ever think they’re elite. Especially at times like these, we can’t afford to push away people.
Thus:
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Why is it not an option to use controllers (as opposed to sticks)? I know many, many more people who are familiar with controllers (be it Xbox or PS2) than I know people who are proficient on stick. Allowing controllers in competition means allowing more players in.
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Why not allow button mapping? People like to complain that this is cheating and unfair. Honestly, I feel all the unblockables of Urien are quite unfair. The response to that is, either pick up Urien and do it back to him, or shut up and learn to compete with my character who doesn’t have an unblockable. In the issue of button mapping, “You could do it, too.” (Mentioned because almost everyone I know that plays consoles with controllers does button mapping.)
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Why hate on the new people? What’s so wrong about being a new person to a game? Does the guy NEED to be harassed? It takes time to learn what the fuck a ‘frying pan’ is in a game. Accept the new people. New blood is good for your game, maybe that new guy will develop a bad-ass Ibuki and NOT play Ken or Chun Li.
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Why not teach the new people? If you’re so amazing a player, couldn’t you smoke a guy who had the knowledge you do? You’re so amazing, don’t you have superior reflexes as well as perfect execution? Not sharing tactics makes us grow slowly. There’s no reason why two people have to learn the same thing independently at different times. Teaching is one of the best ways to learn.
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Why hate on-line play? Other games have lag, yet magically, those games live on. I’ve seen lag in CS, yet people still play it. Why do you have to look down on it and automatically dismiss it? I’m sure many of the players on SRK would SAVE money if they were big on playing on-line. Not only that, playing on-line allows challenging people far away and overseas. Even if there was a lag in a match, you may learn a new tactic or combo that could revolutionize your gameplay. Be open to on-line play.
Hey you’re right! SNK still hasn’t brought any A-Wave games to home consoles!
…except for KOF Neowave, NGBC, and SSTenka, that is. Jesus.
…seriously.
here’s my 2 cents:
coming from an older players perspective and strictly speaking for myself, it mostly has to do with the new games themselves. if the game has solid structure and gameplay, and enough other elements to make it interesting… then that’s what makes it “fun” for me, and thus gives me the interest to learn it and play it.
that’s the whole picture in a nutshell for me, and i’m sure it’s that way for alot of other players too. the games just have to be “good”, and unfair as this may be… ALL new games are compared to their predecessors, which in fighting games means the “capcom hall of fame games”. if they don’t measure up, then many players show no interest, including myself.
well, that’s my take on this subject. if they develop quality fighting games, then i’ll take interest.
“if they build it, we will play”
peace
Damn right!!! Props right there…beat me to it!!! :wgrin:
I get the feeling that by “home console” he meant “American home console.”
Cmutt: Apparently “quality” is a relative term nowadays.
Denjin: I’m lead to believe fighting games are a lot more frame dependant then most other genres with online matching, which explains why the online experience gets hated on.
Even American Home Console NeoWave just got released!!! (XBOX)
Those games are all out in Japan. Where the fighting scene is still doing just fine. They aren’t doing much good for the rest of the world.
Is it actually on sale anywhere? I’m still seeing the release date as 2/21/2006 at Amazon, 3/21/2006 at EB, and Best Buy doesn’t show anything at all.
english much?
He said most newbies tend to prefer 3d games because of more possibilities (sidestepping, user friendliness) than most 2d games.