The reality is t hawk doesn’t actually own anyone. He has no winning matchups at the highest level of play. It only works consistently outside of japan, so let’s enjoy it while we can DSP 
Hawk has a MUCH easier time against the tier 4 guys compared to the assholes in his tier bracket.
The tier rank is the number of points you spend. You can spend up to 4 points. By picking Guile, you spend 3 points, so you can have a team of Guile and either Cammy, Hawk, Blanka or Gief. You have to beat Dhalsim once, while he has to beat you twice. It is not dependent on match-up difficulty, but on that overall tier list they have considered.
Shit, I thought he had a least one 6-4 matchup. I don’t know why. I have checked that diagram from Nohoho’s blog, and you are right. He has some mostly fair matchups, at 4.5-5.5, and that’s it.
Yeah, I believe he does. At least O.Sagat is not in the tournament: he owns all of them for free.
I was wondering about that. Does that mean that O gat is banned in J tournies? I have really hard time looking for high level o gat matches. Is it official ban, or is it just after the tourny is over, a group of yakuzas beat the shit out of you if you pick o gat?
I think this particular tournament was N.chars-only. The tiers are listed at the beginning of the video, but in Japanese. I got what the characters were by comparing to some players’ names (e.g., Muteguile, Aniken) and comparing teams, as I do not know Japanese. No old character is listed (they can them “S” characters, from Super SF2), not in the tier ranking and not in the teams, so I can only guess they were either not used, or banned for this particular tournament.
I didn’t pick up any reference to old characters. Nakano Royal ratio tourneys have had players picking old characters in the past but these characters often aren’t mentioned in the ratio charts even when they’re included.
o.Sagat soft ban is nonsense in JP tourneys. Using him may cause some to scoff, as it does in the US as well to a degree, but there are no actual restrictions. I’m not sure how o.Sagat’s viability can be inferred here when none of the 16 old characters were used.
Anyway, you actually couldn’t have a 4-character team in this tourney. Not only do the rules stipulate a ratio up to 4, but they also state that there’s a 3-character limit, a la CVS2. It still won’t be easy for a Chun Li player to beat a strong T.Hawk x3 but that’s the risk you take choosing a top tier character.
A ratio 4 character is at a slight statistical disadvantage against 2 weaker characters even if both matchups are 7-3. A ratio 4 character barely wins against three 8-2 matchups and has a roughly 1/5 chance of winning against three 6-4 matchups. In effect, low-point ratio tourneys don’t necessarily provide a fair playfield but are rather intended to promote the use of weaker characters.
Own is a bit of an overstatement. I meant to say that Hawk has better matchups in the higher tiers as compared to fighting like a Honda or a Cammy.
That’s a pretty interesting system. So you’re able to pick either a high-tier character, but be character-locked, whereas you can pick at least 2 different characters who are lower on the tier list. I kind of like that. Makes for some very interesting character selection strategies and, hopefully, a better variety of characters in a tournament?
I just think it’s HEAVILY frowned upon in Japanese culture, to the point where he’s essentially banned. No one wants to be “that guy” in a tournament who picks o.gat, especially amongst a fairly small fighting game community.
Since we’re on the subject of ratio tournaments, Play Spot Big 1 had one on 2/10, the day after Nakano Royal’s. Its “4 chance” tourney had an interesting setup, different ratios, and explicit mention of old characters:
Rules: http://big1.mods.jp/contents/event.html
There are 4 preliminary blocks. The 4 block winners progress to the finals. You have a maximum of 10 ratio points to distribute. You also have a maximum of 4 characters to select from, one of which is your designated character (*).
You can assign at most 1 character per block. If you have enough characters to fit all 4 blocks, then you essentially have 4 chances to make the finals. If you don’t have enough characters for all 4 blocks (e.g. Dhalsim, Zangief, Dhalsim), then you choose how you want to distribute your 3 characters amongst the 4 blocks, with one less chance in the block you omit. If you win a block or multiple blocks, then regardless of who you won that block(s) with, your designated character progresses to the finals.
Ratio: http://big1.mods.jp/contents/event2.html
4 points - Dhalsim, boxer, Chun Li, claw, o.Sagat
3.5 points - Ryu, Dee Jay
3 points - dictator, Guile, E.Honda, o.Ryu, o.Ken, o.T.Hawk, o.boxer, o.Chun Li
2.5 points - Ken, Fei Long, Blanka, Sagat, o.Dhalsim, o.claw, o.dictator, o.Guile, o.Fei Long, o.E.Honda
2 points - Zangief, T.Hawk, Cammy, o.Zangief, o.Dee Jay, o.Cammy, o.Blanka
Video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16938036
Results: http://big1.mods.jp/contents/result.html
- Den (*boxer, o.Ryu, dictator)
- Nasusim (*Dhalsim, Zangief, Dhalsim)
- Koemon (*Fei Long x4)
Fei X 4, that guy is a mother fucking bauce. I myself would have went hawk X 5.
Well that’s easy for me. O.sagat, Ryu, o.guile. Fits perfectly for the 10 point max.
Speaking of Koemon, he is on the last team battle at Game Spot. Part 1, part 2. Very strong players in this one: Noguchi, Nuki, AFO, Kurahashi, Sashishi, Sasori, Nakamura, Keishin, Shin, Numa, VIPER and others. Comments by Nikaiten.
Love it, it’s almost like ST: Millionaire Fighting.
ratio tourneys are dumb
The point of a tournament isn’t to artificially balance the game. wtf japan
I don’t think this is true, as it would imply that the Japanese are complete retards.
Don’t think they’re trying to balance it in anyway, just trying to encourage people to use a variety of characters. It’s an interesting concept, but I still prefer the American style of ‘any character goes’ kind of thing.
Well then, besides the fact that the entire Japanese community is completely retarded, what other theory do you have as to why they don’t pick o.sagat? They’ve simply come to the consensus that he’s FAR too good of a character, and have elected not to use him.
Claw is ‘that guy’ and people in Japan still use his retarded ass.
I think mixing up tournament formats is fine. Remember, ST is still a game at the end of the day. When you lose sight of that, you start stalking Guile players.
Amazing moment at 13:45, Balrog player manages to throw Blanka player’s Super from full screen for the win. Looks like a friggin glitch lol, but it could be a feasible option if you’re desperate and low on health and don’t want to jump or block Blanka’s Super.
http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16976542
Also some great Blanka matches in there, AFO goes on a rampage (at least I think it’s AFO).
You’d have to be a moron to come to this consensus but still gladly play Boxer, Dhalsim, Claw etc. I think most people just don’t like playing as or against Sagat just because they don’t like his playstyle, not because he is too strong.
So let me clarify. I’m a moron for thinking that they banned him because they feel that he’s too strong. You, being the oh-so intelligent man that you are, state that they have banned him because they don’t like his play style, and not because he’s too strong.
In that case, why not ban other characters? To list some poor examples: Claw’s wall dive is ridiculous, ban him. Boxer’s super is WAY too good, ban him. Why is it that o.sagat is banned and not other top characters for similarly arbitrary reasons? I highly doubt that the entire FGC in Japan dislikes his play style, so they just don’t use him.
The only logical conclusion is that they feel that his abilities are abusive, and/or detract from top-level play at tournaments. It’s not it’s problematic to make him available to select at tournaments, so is there any other reason to ban a character in this fashion? Again, if someone in Japan can actually ask them why they have soft-banned him, that would be great. Until then, I assume it’s for the reasons I’ve stated before.
eltrouble dont mind muc. He must be out of weed. He gets that way.