The SRK Science Thread 2.0

[fishjie]

we might never understand consciousness but i think what’s important to remember is that religion is WRONG

there is no soul

although i do believe since we are gas, we are part of the universe, and when we die we return to the universe, so in essence we live forever, although our aspect of the universe (our consciousness) will never live again…

[hubcapsignstop]

im willing to argue that any assertion/belief based on a lack of evidence constitutes a religious thought
whether it is borne of an “open” or “closed” mindset
including the above post

[white_shadow]

im willing to argue that any assertion/belief based on a lack of evidence constitutes a religious thought
whether it is borne of an “open” or “closed” mindset
including the above post

The difference is, with science, bold assertions go through a logical set of processes to see if the theory bears truth, even remotely. Also, it takes more “faith” to believe in a negative.

That being said, studying the most extreme and mysterious phenomena has humbled me from uttering the word “impossible” with nonchalance.

Fun Facts w/ Neil DeGRasse-Tyson:

http://chzschooloffail.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/london-olympics-roflympics-neil-degrasse-tyson-olympics-commentator.png

[pherai]

im willing to argue that any assertion/belief based on a lack of evidence constitutes a religious thought
whether it is borne of an “open” or “closed” mindset
including the above post

you’re inviting a tedious semantic argument to prove a tired point. if “believing” anything without running it through the scientific method makes you religious there isn’t really much point in distinguishing the two words.

[hubcapsignstop]

The difference is, with science, bold assertions go through a logical set of processes to see if the theory bears truth, even remotely. Also, it takes more “faith” to believe in a negative.

right,
so believing in scientific findings would not fit the criteria i mad eup for ‘religious thought’

you’re inviting a tedious semantic argument to prove a tired point. if “believing” anything without running it through the scientific method makes you religious there isn’t really much point in distinguishing the two words.

not semantics at all, and im not suggesting everyone run the scientific method, simply relying on credible sources is perfectly acceptiable
no, the scientific method is intended to mold an opened minded skeptic (in my opinion; hahaa)
im simply pointing out hypocrisy
somehow people seem to think that making a kneejerk opposing negative assertion is no different than pointing out flaws in a certain offending positive assertion

[pedoviejo]

on the topic of consciousness,

I’ve noticed that humans are quick to readily believe in some transfer of consciousness to a world that transcends the physical world.

Could that be a biological construct created by our consciousness of death? From what I know, we are the only animals that go out of our way to slow down the process or try our best to stop it from ever happening. Could it be that our minds/consciousness develops this readiness to facilitate the process of death and make it bearable?

[fishjie]

I think stuff like near death experiences and such are just a byproduct of hallucinations induced by various brain chemicals (or in case of NDE lack of oxygen to brain) and not necessarily transcending from a localized version of reality to a higher level of consciousness / higher plane of existence.

Anyone who has done hallucinogens will experience lots of sensations and feelings that will feel absolutely real but actually aren’t. Heck you dont even need drugs, just do some lucid dreaming, everything seems real enough. the brain does lie to us all the time, which means that anything we see or feel while being oxygen deprived or while on drugs isn’t necessarily true.

[pedoviejo]

But even people who have never had those experiences, will not hesitate to believe in “life” after death in some form. It seems natural to believe in something like that. If it is, then is it an artificial construct wired into us, as a sort of coping mechanism to deal with our awareness of death.

[goodm0urning]

Plate tectonics on Mars.

[goodm0urning]

In the search for a cancer cure, researchers have developed a molecule that could function as a non-hormonal, reversible form of male birth control.

Kind of a poorly written article, but that’s science journalism for you. Anyway, it’s exciting news for people who like sex.

[YogaHarmony]

^ if its not peer reviewed its not real science, it’s media extrapolation of unknown facts.

And string theory fits in that category for example.

And commenting on the religion vs science debate I present the following:
Religion demands faith, something that is just deemed true, while science depends on math or “assumptions” thought to be true. Well math depends on axioms, statements that are unprovable and must be taken as true. So no matter how you slice it, there is uncertainty- you must place faith somewhere to get anywhere. Where you place it will take you different paths but we are all converging to the same limit IMO.

[goodm0urning]

Why do I get the feeling that your post is using my post (which is, in itself, clear about its speculative nature) purely as a pretext to make a point about string theory?

[hubcapsignstop]

^ if its not peer reviewed its not real science, it’s media extrapolation of unknown facts.

And string theory fits in that category for example.

And commenting on the religion vs science debate I present the following:
Religion demands faith, something that is just deemed true, while science depends on math or “assumptions” thought to be true. Well math depends on axioms, statements that are unprovable and must be taken as true. So no matter how you slice it, there is uncertainty- you must place faith somewhere to get anywhere. Where you place it will take you different paths but we are all converging to the same limit IMO.

nice reflexes

[YogaHarmony]

Why do I get the feeling that your post is using my post (which is, in itself, clear about its speculative nature) purely as a pretext to make a point about string theory?

Because I linked them together, stating my opinion that they are very similar.

/rant

“We think there are ten dimensions because an equation ended up with (x-10)(some stuff we can’t solve)=0” - "that physist married to some CBS big wig.
He forgot to mention that equation stems from algebraic geometry which like all modern mathematics in the last hundred years, depends on the axiom of choice, a bullshit assumption that isn’t “obvious” at all.

Off-Topic, infinite sets don’t exist goddamnit. Fuck Cantor!

/rant

Proceed kind people, my family and friends are sick of hearing it. My apologies.

[HoneyBBQGrundle]

You should at least state your physics/math background or link to some sites that might be useful to back up your claims. What about Peter Woit for string theory and Wildberger for infinite sets? I don’t understand any of the physics stuff, but it’s always interesting to hear dissenting views that come from non-cranks.

[Don_Barracuda]

Maybe not, the process might be so gradual and warping you’d probably not be able to discern what’s going on, waiting for an end that will never come.

Think of it like how a frog in a pot gradually made to boil is unaware of it’s own demise.

The NDE phenomena is also interesting, esp. when a neuroscientist gives a testimonial about his experience:

[media=youtube]rlwyU0_M88o[/media]

He doesn’t know what stage during his coma he had his vision. He could have dreamt all that once his brain had healed and was in a normal state of sleep.

[YogaHarmony]

You should at least state your physics/math background or link to some sites that might be useful to back up your claims. What about Peter Woit for string theory and Wildberger for infinite sets? I don’t understand any of the physics stuff, but it’s always interesting to hear dissenting views that come from non-cranks.

I just have an undergrad in theoretical math, I could recommend some books for the math portion. But as for string theory my whole point is there is nothing to link because there is no peer reviewed articles that support string theory… only the “history” channel and commercialized books.

[white_shadow]

I think stuff like near death experiences and such are just a byproduct of hallucinations induced by various brain chemicals (or in case of NDE lack of oxygen to brain) and not necessarily transcending from a localized version of reality to a higher level of consciousness / higher plane of existence.

Anyone who has done hallucinogens will experience lots of sensations and feelings that will feel absolutely real but actually aren’t. Heck you dont even need drugs, just do some lucid dreaming, everything seems real enough. the brain does lie to us all the time, which means that anything we see or feel while being oxygen deprived or while on drugs isn’t necessarily true.

I’ve wrestled with this too, but some cases where patients has undergone surgery where there are no signs of brain activity whatsoever or are undergoing surgery requiring the heart to be stopped yet experiencing the same levels lucidity described in other NDE cases. I’m not saying I’m a proponent of the phenomena, but it is intriguing hearing real life testimony and trying to dissect where the physical explanations neatly fit.

As for hallucinogens- similar to schizophrenics, maybe when on a chemically induced bender your brain can’t quite get a grip on reality, literally… If the objective reality we see is just a rounded down perception illuminated and mitigated by our brains. So if the brain gets disrupted in some way, the localized reality we all claim to experience starts to overlap with the other innumerable possibilities, however aberrant.

[media=youtube]5i_bUQxUuBk[/media]

As a person who’ve experienced lucid dreaming nightly until about 17 years of age, I can attest to the fact that the brain can create some incredibly lifelike manifestations. I used to remember creating entire cities with thousands of people, all unique. I could observe each simultaneously from different perspectives and watch traffic/ weather patterns from isometric points of view even while doing all this. No focus or concentration needed, the experience was completely and indescribably seamless. So yes, the brain is capable of complexities we have yet to truly realize.

He doesn’t know what stage during his coma he had his vision. He could have dreamt all that once his brain had healed and was in a normal state of sleep.

I dismissed the NDE phenomena early on because of this thought process as well. I figure because of the “uniqueness” of the traumatic experience can make coma dreams feel surreal in a way regular dreams aren’t. I figure this guy would’ve seen through this already if that was the case; I wish I could have a conversation with him and probe his thoughts.

Mr.Hubcap: All I can say is that religious and scientific ponderings all originate from the same place, our malleable brains. Utilizing objective methods to prove subjective ideas is the best we can do, but still a step up from blind faith.

[hubcapsignstop]

…Also, it takes more “faith” to believe in a negative.

I was simply agreeing

but why the quotations?
hahaa

[white_shadow]

I was simply agreeing

but why the quotations?
hahaa

It was a response to the “open” or “closed” portion of your post.

<copacetic/>

http://www.doctortipster.com/10789-recent-study-links-t-gondii-parasite-to-suicidal-attempts.html

Recent Study Links T. Gondii Parasite to Suicidal Attempts

Posted in: Medical News by Filip Teodor 2 Comments on August 20th, 2012\

[LIST]
[*]Ema
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Scientists have discovered that a very common and known to be harmless parasite can cause small changes in the brain that might actually lead to suicide attempts.
Toxoplasma gondii, or T. gondii can be found in almost a third of the world’s population. Although in most people it lies dormant, it can also cause toxoplasmosis. People can easily catch it by consuming undercooked meat, especially pork or lamb and by drinking contaminated water. The parasite reproduces in the cells of its primary hosts, all members of the feline family.
Toxoplasmosis can have serious effects on a fetus whose mother develops the disease during pregnancy or on an immunocompromised person. In time, brain inflammation may appear, which will release metabolites into the organism, damaging the brain cells.
Previous studies had found T.gondii responsible for behavioral changes and even suicide attempts. Researchers revealed that suicide victims and depressed patients presented small areas in the cerebrum with evidence of inflammation. A more recent study, lead by professor Lena Brundin has shown that people who are positive for the parasite are seven times more likely to attempt suicide.
Brundin and her team are the first ones to measure scores on a suicide assessment scale from people who have the parasite. They found that those who tested positive for Toxoplasma gondii were placed on a considerably higher spot on the scale, being more susceptible to severe diseases and future suicide attempts. On the other hand, professor Brundin highlighted the fact that for different reasons some individuals are more at risk of developing symptoms than others.

“It is estimated 90 percent of people who attempt suicide have a diagnosed psychiatric disorder. If we could identify those people infected with this parasite, it could help us predict who is at a higher risk”, said Brundin.
http://www.doctortipster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/200px-Toxoplasma_gondii.jpg

With over a decade of work behind, professor Brundin has discovered that the most effective treatment for depression is a class of antidepressants called selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors or SSRIs. These selective inhibitors increase the level of serotonin, a neurotransmitter contributor to feelings of happiness and well-being. Moreover, her research also indicated that a low serotonin level in the cerebrum might be a symptom of depression and not the cause of it.
Depression is more likely to be caused by inflammation in the brain, from an infection or parasite rather than a serotonin reduction. According to professor Brundin, when parts of the brain are inflamed, its chemistry changes, which can easily cause depression and even suicide thoughts.
Lena Brundin also stated that biological changes are good constructive signs in people with suicidal thoughts because it helps develop new treatments in order to prevent this disease and gives patients the help they need to overcome depression.

LAS PLAGAS!