I think setting Sonic in the real world is dumb. I prefer the more outlandish fantasy setting of the original trilogy.
Old sonic games (i.e upto 3k and lesser extent SA1 and 2): Speed was EARNED through skillful play, experience, knowledge of level layout (and yes this also includes the physics engine which is hard to replicate in 3d)
New sonic games: speed is FORCED on the player. No sense of speed achievement. Its just random spirng or speed burst here or there. Feels like the game is on autopilot
Completeing levels in new sonic games swiftly and speedily require all those things you just listed or else you slam into walls, spikes, and bottomless pits.
Erā¦ except momentum from taking advantage of physics engine.
Oh another thing, the old skool games didnt force you to go fast either. The player had somewhat of a choice to either go fast or slow. In the newer games its like speed speed speed. Too many speed boosts for no apparent reason. Not enough alternative paths or shit to explore.
Itās kinda hard to translate Sonic in a 3rd person perspective while translating what the 2D games were about and making it work. Thereās too many factors going into it right now that it isnāt as simple as how Mario does his stuff because of what the characterās abilities. Hell we need the homing attack in 3D games because itās hard as fuck to be precise when you have a character that can move that fast and you want to bop enemies on the go.
Yep, the homing attack is sorely needed in 3D Sonic.
The 2D gameplay doesnāt translate well to the standard 3D platformer formula. I think the digipen student game Igneous (shoutouts to @spudmastaflash for making that thing) came closest to what Iād like to see in a 3D Sonic game.
Various fan games that try to implement the 2D mechanics in a 3D game usually have mixed results. Doing a spin dash is more complicated than it should be as some of them want Sonic to crouch and they use up two buttons for it.
Agreed to all the points above, however that doesnt necessarily negate my point that the old skool games were better. I agree the homing attack needs to be there in 3D to at least make it closer to that āsonic feelā as much as possible.
I am strongly of the opinion that they shouldnt have stopped producing high level 2D games with that original physics engine. Venture onto other things, fine but keep those 2D games. the GBA/DS games were alright, but they still didnt have what made the original sonic games so good.
@ruthless_nash
The homing attack wouldnāt be so annoying if it didnāt have that long ass windup time. If you could just tap it and instantly blast through enemies that would be awesome. But I always felt the better solution would be to improve the camera system+control scheme+level design so the homing attack wouldnāt be necessary. I always think about the ramming mechanic in Spyro, it felt great on the racing levels when you charge forward with the camera locked over-the-shoulderā¦
Yeah the standard 3rd person controls fall apart at high speeds. Also, the level design is usually a mess, mixing platforming bits with high speed sections (+terrible controls) ruins the gameplay experience.
I think ideally you want to translate some of the 2d classic level design philosophy to 3d, fast lane on top, more challenging platforming below. So maybe, something like a freeway on the upper section of the stage and if you fall off the lower areas have pits and barriers and stuff. But I think the entire stage should have a semi-linear design with clearly defined routes. I guess the closest example may be SSX or something?
Lost Worlds was the closest a 3d Sonic ever came to feeling like a 2d Sonic game to me. It had that sense of momentum and control.
Even the classic levels in generations were missing that sense of āJesus, take the wheelā with itās speed and momentum when you go rolling down a hill at high speeds. The speed caps limited that.
This is actually what I would like. Clean up the level design a bit, give the stages more unique mechanics and fun platforming, hell you could even add tails, knuckles, amy, and shadow in there and it would be a quality game in my eyes.
I would be interested in seeing Sega try something like that, but I see a lot of pit falls with it. Sonics jump distance is fucking nuts for example.
But something good could be done with that with the right time and effort and balance put into it.
I played Sonic Paradise. Itās a fun experiment but I wouldnāt want a Sonic game like it. I need to use two buttons to spin dash which is retarded. The crouch button only exists for this and they would have been better off just making spin dash itās own button like the Adventure games. The team made the underwater way too elaborate for itās own good. It should been there level design for labyrinth zone not apart of Green Hill. The way it designed checkpoint goals is awful as thereās no beam to run pass if the goals are too far apart and canāt physical touch them.
I feel that Sonic Utopia did this style better than Paradise
Thereās Classic Sonic 3D Adventure that removes the speed entirely and focuses more on Sonicās platforming and gimmicks.
Yea cleaning up the mechanics to make them more streamlined will be required. The camera can be ridiculous sometimes and that could be fixed. But I could see so many cool level designs with a game like that from SEGA.
@Hawkingbird Does Utopia use the same control scheme and camera as Paradise? Because Paradise kinda sucked. You really need something more like racing game controls when you move that fast.
This is something I was mentioning to a friend of mineā¦ If you want Sonic to move that fast, he needs to control more like a race car than a platformer character.
The controls and camera are different. Utopia has the homing attack, crouch is bind to a shoulder button so itās less annoying to do a spin dash and it has the super peel out. The speed isnāt retarded like in Paradise so itās much easier to be precise with movement and jumps. Camera is fine. This is a unity game and trying to play the game with a PS4 controller will make the camera spin out of the control rendering the game unplayable. Thereās a fix for that if insist in playing it with a Dual Shock 4.
Originally posted in the other Sonic thread.
^ sounds about right.