The Sonic the hedgehog thread V.3-2012 Sonic 4: Episode 2

specs · January 11, 2012, 11:12am

I was banned for like 3 months. Also I thought Generations being shitty was a given.

Sonichuman · January 14, 2012, 9:51am

The official soundtrack for Generations is out now and can be downloaded from here.

Has both HD and 3DS versions.

Faith_From_Hell · January 14, 2012, 11:39pm

I’m going to share something worthwhile that was posted in the Sega.com forums, thread titled, “Why Episode II’s current PR doesn’t work.”

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6668027871_24a9e27ac0.jpg

Or otherwise titled “why did this image cause such an outpouring of emotion from so many people?”

The problem with Sonic the Hedgehog 4, Episode II, is that it comes directly after what many would call a reinvention of the franchise. Sonic Colours, Sonic Generations, Sonic CD - three games which made sure 2010-2011 involved some extremely high quality Sonic the Hedgehog games.

One is a completely new game, with new level themes, one is a deliberate nostalgic trip but re-imagining older sequences and levels, the third is the ultimate expression of a fan’s love for a franchise, a complete remake of a critically acclaimed game from the ground up, and actually taken up by Sega to be an official product.

Three different takes on the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise, all to some extent evoking that nostalgic look at the character whilst ultimately refreshing and expanding on some terrific gameplay.

So where does Sonic the Hedgehog 4, Episode I and II fit into this? Well you could say, rightly, that Sonic the Hedgehog 4, Episode I tried to do that which all three games did separatel. A nostalgic take on classic level themes but trying to reinvent the franchise whilst ultimately trying to both reinvent the gameplay and keep it the same.

The biggest problem with Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was its contradiction in terms. You cannot reinvent the franchise, be nostalgic and recreate gameplay exactly all in one game. By trying to cover so many different areas, the game was a jack of all trades (ultimately in my view, failing in the gameplay side of things quite badly), and whilst not a commercial flop, is critically not a brilliant game, and certainly when surrounded by the three aforementioned titles, not by any means a good Sonic game.

So, why the sudden hype and arguments on Episode II? Part of this is down to a very different reaction to Sonic the Hedgehog 4, Episode I. Feedback was requested, and given in spades, by a great amount of people. There were several clear issues, which in the “announcement of announcements” by Ken Balough earlier this month, have been “addressed” to some extent [sic].

The problem here with Sonic the Hedgehog 4 currently, as a whole, is the lack of a clear and convincing vision. Episode I on its own mixes classic level tropes, reimagined, with modern character designs, and gameplay which tries to be classic but also reinvent the wheel by removing all momentum.

It is clear from that I’ve observed here, on TSSZ, Sonic Retro and elsewhere, is that the “announcement of an announcement” has only served to stir up the same negative emotions - disappointment, resentment, anxiety and anger, once more - because Sonic the Hedgehog 4, Episode II is currently rehashing the Episode I saga of 2010 all over again.

All of the negative qualities of that campaign - hiding problems with the physics, having to remake levels after a full and comprehensive leak - a game with no clear direction, and PR which pretty much matched that - are being brought back as direct associations with Episode II, because the campaign is being done in the exact same way.

Poor PR management. “Reveals” which reveal very little. People WILL put two and two together and get three, asking “what do they have to hide by showing so little?” - it’s human nature to react in this way when something seems entirely uncertain.

The logo itself is not the problem. It’s what the logo stands for. The fact that the Episode II logo has been revealed in the same manner as Episode I has alarm bells ringing. People WILL think “it’ll be the same as the last time”. That’s natural.

The character designs - well, we all bought into the idea to some extent that they might reuse the Generations model. Hell, I bought into that as well, whilst being aware that it was unlikely to change. This was one of the loudest “complaints” - or “constructive criticism” - thrown at Sega over the last two years.

There has been a huge amount of useful information Sega have had, literally thrown at them, on this forum and elsewhere. If you ignore the pointless back and forth “we’re happy you should be too”, “we’re unhappy why aren’t you”, there have been very reasonable and quantified points of view put forward on the game.

Negative reviews and views do not always go into the same general category as “moaning” and in a lot of cases are wholly positive for the continued development of a brand. Constructive criticism, phrased well, is only a good thing.

The question is; are Sega up to the task of taking on all the feedback they had from the previous episode and improving it four-fold in this episode? That is what the logo is currently making unclear.

Ken Balough is absolutely within his rights to put forward his PR campaign in whatever way he wants, but my warning to him would be to NOT rehash all of the mistakes made in the Episode I campaign.

If Episode II is again found wanting, with little of the feedback - which Sega asked for - used, you’ll find a fanbase with rather less interest in this particular line of product than the others on offer.

Because ultimately, Episode II could make the game Sonic the Hedgehog 4, if it follows up on the loudest, clearest and most reasonable complaints of the last episode.

But showing off Episode II in the same manner as Episode I, with all of its negative connotations, is frankly insulting to the many patient and constructive Sonic fans out there.

Oh, and a captured HD version of the Progressive Commercial.

[media=youtube]BY_H4d68IUc[/media]

Tizoc · January 15, 2012, 12:37am

I like how they used the Super Sonic theme in it XD

Sonic_Hedgehog · January 15, 2012, 7:43am

Thanks for the link to the sound tracks! I needed the 3DS stuff.

Sonichuman · January 15, 2012, 9:13am

Listening to the soundtrack and having a better idea of who did what is good. Sega should definitely keep Cash Cash around but just have them mostly focus on instrumental stuff. Didn’t know who Circuit Freq was but I give them the thumbs up since they were behind the ‘Open Your Heart’ remix and the ‘For True Story’ remix. Also didn’t know they got Richard Jacques to do some work on this game too. Thinking about it…where the fuck is Howard Drossin at? quick look up awww…last thing he did was the new Splatterhouse? One of his tracks from Sonic & the Black Knight came up while I was driving and it would have been nice if they nabbed him to work on something.

Edit:

Someone took the DBZ Android Saga opening for Toonami and put Sonic Characters in it.

Faith_From_Hell · January 15, 2012, 2:30pm

RE: Green Hill Act 2 World Record.

[media=youtube]2PVrkQmkSJQ[/media]

He can run it faster.

Sonichuman · January 15, 2012, 9:17pm

Whatever that momentum jump based glitch thing he’s doing is ridiculous lol.

Edit:

seriously how is he doing that?

[media=youtube]OTk-mWu_CmQ[/media]

Edit2:

He has a vid explaining it but it’s in japanese
[media=youtube]Iz7JUHNxliY[/media]

jblacksonic · January 15, 2012, 10:50pm

Here’s the glitch
[media=youtube]PJrQ5xhb3Q8[/media]
It looks so simple, but i can only get it around 1/20 times

Faith_From_Hell · January 16, 2012, 12:00am

Been playing a lot of Unleashed HD lately for the challenge of learning new levels. I’ve been wanting to get that jump down for the longest because I can’t break 1:40 in Green Hill act 2, and I can’t run 1:41 consistently.

Kokonoe · January 16, 2012, 8:11am

I’m going to go ahead and post this here, images I took for the Sonic forums.
Apparently there’s DLC on the Japanese marketplace for Sonic Generations.

This specific thing for 320 MS Points which is referred to as a “Game add on”, isn’t on the US Marketplace.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/zVlZF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZNBi8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LGf7T.jpg

orochizoolander · January 16, 2012, 8:57am

The opposite really, I think literally everyone here besides you loved Sonic Generations.The only complaints we’ve had are how short the game is which is pretty minor in the grand scheme of games.

Sonic 4 wasn’t that bad so if episode 2 is just more of the same I’ll just wait till it drops in price. I really hope Sega realizes generations is what 4 was supposed to be and use SG’s physics.

Any word on more SG dlc or SG2?

specs · January 16, 2012, 9:18am

Every last man, woman, and child on the planet can love Generations; the game still sucks. As for Sonic 4, all that needs saying’s been said.

Faith_From_Hell · January 16, 2012, 9:52pm

It’s doubtful there will be a second Generations any time soon. I think it’s nice people want more of it since it delivers well. Personally, I’m ready to see something new (stage-wise especially, not too much gameplay-wise).

Biolink · January 16, 2012, 10:24pm

I love Generations, but the game certainly did/does have more potential.

Shadow_Ace_50 · January 17, 2012, 1:26am

don’t wanna be a downer but it just looks like it will be the casino night pinball stage…id love to be wrong though

Kokonoe · January 17, 2012, 5:58am

You’re correct, someone translated it on the Sonic forums.

Sonic_Hedgehog · January 17, 2012, 7:28am

I’m curious about your thoughts on Sonic Generations. Certainly it has room for improvement, but for the most part they tried their best to deliver what fans have been asking for.

My second question is what would it take for a Sonic game to please you outside of just adding more zones to Sonic 3 & Knuckles (retro style akin to what Capcom did with Megaman 9)?

I’m not attacking or anything, just curious for your opinions.

Kokonoe · January 17, 2012, 8:04am

They messed up the music for Radical Highway for Sonic Generations 3DS big time.

specs · January 17, 2012, 8:30am

Firstly, no attack perceived. Secondly, apologies if you’re saying that because I’ve been too abrasive.

On Sonic Generations, my experience is playing the XB demo and watching my brother and cousin play the PC version. The classic Sonic levels feel, as I’ve said, Dimps-ish: lots of holding right with the occasional tap of the jump button, with more pits than thoughtful platforming. The modern Sonic levels still feel a lot better than, say, the Sonic Adventure/Heroes/Shadow/'06 levels but the same problem exists, except you’re occasionally holding up and/or holding a boost button. Hey, if people like it, they should play it, but I neither care for it nor feel it leads to sound design.

On Megaman, the franchise has presented very different takes on the same formula. And not just, say, X and Legends. Megaman 3 fundamentally changed how Megaman controlled (no more skidding), 4 added a charged shot, etc. Even in staying the same-ish, Megaman has spread its wings somewhat. But X really changed up the formula while staying true to it, and Legends REALLY moved things around, but solid level design and mechanics ensured they still worked.

Zelda kinda-sorta did the same, despite the 3D Zeldas being just a tad overrated. Metroid Prime 1 is similar, though 2 and 3 ruin a good thing by making gameplay feel tedious, for reasons I’ll get into somewhere else.

Anywho, more S3&K would be nice (that’s what Sonic Advance 1 did), but things can change. As long as the end result is a fun, viable game, I’m happy.