Blanka’s super has JP 4 ,not infinite.If you do super, super only one hit will juggle, so it’s not infinite.It does juggle fully after electricity tough, so my guess it’s that it has JP 4.It seems that some supers in SF4 (not projectiles) raise the counter by a heck of a lot more that 1.Take blanka here.I think his super raises the juggle counter by 4.Or trading hits with the last hit of cammy’s super will make cannon spike which has JP 1 wiff, so that one hit of the super raises the counter to at least 2.Same with ken’s.If you do CH HP SRK xx super they will be in float state until the last hit, and the last hit single-handedly raises the counter to 2 so only EX SRK connect with it’s last hit.And there are more examples of this, some easily demonstreated with a trade.I think it’s the same for sagat’s super.
Strange way how supers work when they juggle.
The Cammy super thing is wrong, I can connect EX cannon spike after last-hit trade. you must have messed up the hitboxes. normal cannon spike only juggles on the initial hit, not while Cammy is in the air. And your Ken test must be faulty, I connected a normal HP SRK after a 2-hit super in that situation.
Actually, at least your ken example, would coincide with my theory finely. The last hit of Ken’s super in that situation would raise the counter to 1, which makes the last hit of his EX SRK the only hit that’s able to connect. Remember, it’s not moves that have the same JP as the counter, it’s moves that have more jp than the counter.
And again, videos would help greatly “in that situation” is somewhat vague and it’d be easier to just see it.
I had to wake up 4 hours later, didn’t feel like recording it. just FA -> 2 hit HP SRK on second state xx super, which only connects with the 2 last hits (with that I mean the 5th and 6th hit, not the 3rd and 6th hit.) -> HP SRK. Did it on Ryu. I’ve noticed that the first SRK of super doesn’t whiff on every character.
Yeah i noticed that too.Then maybe specific hits of it add to the juggle counter?
Kens super is a little fucked up.
I think alot of supers (perhaps Ultras)
Have attacks that hit but keep the character on the same juggle count. (Sagat & Ken come to mind) it seems to me with Ken, that if the last hit hits, then it increases the counter, if it doesn’t then it seems the character stays at whatever count they started on.
Perhaps the attack stat Kich has called FKR Float Knockdown Reset) is actually just an attack that adds 0 to the juggle counter. For example if you have a move that has a Potential of 1, (we’ll call it move X) but also has FKR & causes Float knockdown. Then these two standards become available
Hit enemy in to float knockdown, then do X move, enemy stays in Float
Hit enemy in to standard knockdown, Do X move, enemy stays in Standard knockdown.
But with nextto no moves on JP1 with FKR to test this (Besides Kens EX SRK?) it’s all just wild speculation.
well, I’m still not entirely sure of the system but yes this is basically true
the things i know:
the hit data a move has what another modder gojira referred to as “juggle class” before we knew much of the system, most hits have 01 as their juggle class. I suspect juggle class is simply how much the move increments the counter… to some extent. Hitting with a 0 again might increment the counter by 1 that time, not sure, but it definitely increases. This number does NOT effect what it can juggle from, just what the hit can juggle TO. In the animation data on the other hand is the “juggle potential” as you are referring to it. It is usually 4 bytes worth of data (one byte is 0-255, usually in hex), most moves are “01 00 01 01”. I’m not entirely sure what the 01s have to do with it but I do know that ultras like Ryu’s tend to have the first 01 be 07 instead. The 2nd number, the 00, is pretty much the “juggle potential” that you are referring to. If a move with 00 juggle class hits and launches, then you are in the “float knockdown” or whatever, which isn’t really a separate state, and then a “01 00 01 01” move can hit, but it is the only state in which that can hit. now most moves that can juggle just have a number like “01 01 01 01” or similar. Most of the hurricane kicks have like each hit be 1 higher in the juggle potential.
[media=youtube]IyUW7-pS5kM[/media]
in this example I set lk cannon spike and her j.hk and her airthrow to have a juggle potential of 32. I also had to turn on a flag somewhere else copied off abel’s antiair throw that allows throws to juggle in the first place (same location that says whether attacks high low mid or unblockable, or whether throws can grab ground or air or both)
An interesting fact about throws and juggling into throws: throws are generally 2 hits (more for throws like rufus’s typing on the chest throw), first an invisible hit that starts the throw, and a second one that does damage. During the throw animation the opponent is still in juggle state as far as the game is concerned, so if the 2nd hit of the throw does not have high enough juggle potential, then the throw animation will play but no damage will result. Another interesting fact that never comes up in normal SF4: a throw resets the juggle counter even if the throw cause juggle state. I originally had made cammy’s airthrow cause juggle state but then pretty soon I realize that I had created an airthrow infinite despite it only having a juggle potential of 3 at the time
example of a throw that causes juggle state:
[media=youtube]Ga3CQHzDvVo[/media]
I know that the first hit of ken’s ultra that causes full ultra has a JP of 00 for example, change it to say, 20, and the ultra pretty much hits off everything now.
in this video:
[media=youtube]7p9amiZy5W4[/media]
tiger uppercut is normal
f.rh has a juggle potential of 03 instead of default 01 (and a juggle class of 00 instead of 01),
j.hk has 32 instead of 00
if f.rh hits on its own without the tiger uppercut you can do 4 of them instead of just 3 and the jhk
I’m working on deciphering the exact format of the file specifically until I can write a program that will take this data and output it to more human readable table… the problem is that the juggle class and other things aren’t always in the same place and I’m not sure of the system going on, I’ve been doing everything by guess-and-check type methods and just seeing the patterns with my own eyes. i don’t know how to tell a computer to do it yet, i’m missing something big here
Is this also what happens when Seth’s Ultra knocks you into a Sonic Boom? The SB counts as one hit, but after the Ultra the combo meter displays 2, which means you don’t get hit by the bulk of the move.
Thing is, you can still connect the rest of the hits sometimes. I think it has something to do with hitboxes. This is how I see it: http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee205/Da_doppen/Sethultrawhiffthesis.jpg
And when it comes to the sonic boom, I think it has to hit the opponent when he is already pushed back fulle from the ultra for the hits to be dislocated, I think that if the sonic boom connects while the opponent is being pushed back from the ultra, they will end up in the usual position.
could you post a video or more specifically describe the setup of this? i tried doing it and i was getting normal ultra damage
Try doing sonic boom under an opponent in the air, then FADC ultra. Thing is, as I said, this sometimes gives full ultra damage as well.
I posted a comment on the last page of seth “Seth in SF4” in SSF4 section, regarding why ultra pushing them into sonic boom sometimes grants full hits, and sometimes just the last one, which holds up to what Anotak says he found out while searching through SF4’s engine
Thing is, that is simply not true. I have seen it whiff on grounded opponents, and When I managed to connect the full ultra yesterday, I hit an airborne opponent. And because it sometimes whiff aster c.HP, it simple can’t be because of juggle limitations.
Maybe I should do a video about it, I have no other projects atm.
EDIT: Bah, looks like I tried too hard to prove my own theory right.
gouken’s fireballs have infinite juggle, not sure entirely what’s happening there but:
most moves’ juggle are is like 01 00 01 01, w/ the 2nd 00 being the juggle potential and i’ve not been sure on the other two. Gouken’s fireballs have 01 00 00 00.
That’s curious, my guess is that one of the last two is a stat displaying how much the move increases the juggle potential, second set may be adjustements for say, hitting in air.
Give us those stats for a certain few moves & we’ll probably be able to figure it out
Kens LP/MP/HP SRK & Maybe EX To - has altered aerial propperties for the HP SRK, others for comparrison
Akumas LP/MP/HP SRK - the move is easy to understand & has predicatble hit propperties
Ken EX Fireball - To compare to Ryu’s Projectile
Akuma EX Fireball (standard) - To compare to Ryu’s projectile
Ryu’s EX Hadouken - Has a greater hit propperty than it’s usual counterparts
Kens LK Tatsumaki - Has peculiar hit propperties
Goukens EX Palm - To compare to Goukens fireball
If you can get us them we’ll probably figure this all out. Could probably o it with less, but i think this is enough to crack it.
I think you should compare those stats with the stats of the first hit of Ryus j.MP. They SHOULD be the same.
yeah first hit of ryu’s jmp is 01 01 01 01 and 2nd is 01 00 00 00
Wth? it should be the other way around. The 2nd hit has a JP of 1, first hit has a JP of 0, and first hit juggles indefinitely. Maybe they just write them in the reverse order for some reason?
It has to be, otherwise these stats would make no sense >_<