The safe palm strike/dive kick thread

Not sure if this belongs here, but since shinakuma204 posted this video[media=youtube]7LZulowZvkE&feature=related[/media], i thought i could make a translation.

Video description: I have put a few things that i have been trying to incorporate into my game in a video.

0:24 ? The special thing about it is that the divekick beats certain reversals such as Sagat?s tiger
uppercuts
0:31 ? Unfortunately, this technique doesn?t work against some characters such as Ryu
0:36 ? Against Ryu, you can use a forward throw for safe jump setups
0:40 ? A safe jump is a jump in, which your opponent must block, and which can?t be anti aired
1:05 ? Counters:
1:16 ? Can be punished with Ryu?s super, so don?t do it when he has full super meter
1:19 ? The timing is hard
1:20 ? Pro?s:
1:22 ? Your opponent can?t FADC if the shoryuken comes out too early (for instance if he?s mashing)
1:29 ? How you are NOT supposed to do it
1:35 ? You are better off performing it too early instead of too late
1:47 ? The trick here is to delay the Demon Flip a bit after the two dashes.
1:52 ? If you don?t delay it, the Demon Flip will whiff. Also, you can?t punish certain reversals
1:57 ? Perform the Demon Flip when the second dash has ended, don?t buffer it during the dash
2:20 ? Be careful!
2:38 ? You can expand the setup by means of a sweep option select
2:44 ? An option select is when different things happen depending on whether your attack hits or
whiffs
2:48 ? There are also other kinds of option selects, which we?ll see later on
3:00 ? HP input for the palm
3:02 ? Cr. HK
3:04 ? The input for the sweep is when normally, the Demon Flip palm would hit
3:08 ? This means that you only sweep if the palm whiffs. If the palm hits, you don?t get the sweep
because of blockstun
3:16 ? If the palm is blocked, you can continue with a regular blockstring
3:20 ? If the opponent performs a reversal, you can just block, as if the sweep was never performed
4:05 ? Be careful!
5:16 ? The inputs are simple. You perform the first jab so, that it hits as a meaty attack
5:20 ? The time where you would normally do another jab in a blockstring, you do an extra cr.HK
(I don?t know whether this got lost in my translation, or if he worded it incorrectly, but i think
Loltima explained this better: You just do two regular jabs with a c.HK in between)
5:25 ? If the opponent blocks, it looks like this:
5:29 ? If you hit the opponent, or if he tries to grab you:
5:49 ? Be careful!
6:03 ? Against Balrog this option select doesn?t work well, because he can reversal headbutt you,
catching you with a counterhit.
6:09 ? Against Balrog, there is a better option select
6:18 ? The input is similar to that of the chun li option select, but instead of the first jab, you throw
while crouching. This means you get a cr.lk instead of a throw. (If I understand correctly, the
input would be: cr.lp+cr.lk, cr.HK~cr.lp)
6:37 ? If Balrog tries to grab you 1 of two things will hapen: A, your light kick hits him out of the
throw (if you did it meaty) or B, you tech the throw
6:45 ? Be careful!
6:53 ? Against Rufus, there is another variant of this option select. This one is a bit harder
6:57 ? Performing the option select isn?t that hard, but it is hard to continue with a blockstring
if your opponent just blocks the option select

7:16 ? The inputs are the following: You do the first jab and buffer the (EX) shoryuken at the same
time, so you press df+lp. During the blockstun (hitstun actually), you finish the (EX) shoryuken
motion
7:23 ? That is why the (EX) shoryuken does not always come out, but it is also the reason why it is
it is harder to continue with a blockstring (I didn?t really get this part myself)
7:32 ? Be careful!
7:33 ? If you are to close to Rufus, you will be caught by a reversal
7:44 ? A pseudo safe jump is a jump in where your opponent doens?t have to block if he does nothing
while waking up
7:57 ? You time the jump in so, that the normal doesn?t hit the opponent and you recover faster than
that he can reversal
8:05 ? After the jump in, delay your cr.lk+lp a bit (the throw option select), so you don?t get hit by the
Reversal
8:39 ? The good thing about this setup is that you surprise your opponent, should he try to block the
jump in
8:45 ? Because of the short delay of your throw, your opponent has time to jump away
8:50 ? Without the delay, your opponent can?t jump away, but is is more dangerous to do so
(reversals can hit your out of your cr.lk)
8:56 ? It is important to know your opponent to decide whether to delay the throw or not
9:00 ? If you just want to bait an anti air, stick with the delay in your setup
9:10 ?This option select is more situation dependant than the others, but it is definitely not useless
9:15 ? The throw at the beginning isn´t neccesary
9:22 ? The inputs are similar to that of palm option select sweep
9:32 ? You do the palm with a jab, then buffer a second jab, and press back (or forward for the super
version) + lk+hp the moment your palm would normally hit
9:48 ? Be careful! (This is better in SSFIV with U2 option select instead of U1 and sweep backdash on
reaction)
10:02 ? And now the reason why this setup is truly usefull
10:10 ? If you use this setup after a forward throw, you just have to dash once, and delay your
demon flip a bit
10:13 ? However , like I said, the throw isn?t neccesary for this setup
10:28 ? This also works for other teleports. If your opponent teleports the other way, you are safe
10:33 ? Be careful!

^Awesome. Thanks so much for the translation :smiley:

NP :smiley: I was also gonna do the second video, but i saw that he already has an english transcription of that one. Maybe Ill send him my text, so he can add an english transcription for the first vid.

About the wakeup times I’ve mentioned earlier, when I was testing that, for some reason I was assuming Ibuki’s EX dragon kick reversal thing was 4 frames, which can’t be safejumped via forward throw x 2 dashes vs characters with normal or faster wakeup times, but after knowing it’s a 5 frame reversal, I still can’t safejump it after Akuma’s forward throw x 2 dashes (same recorded setup works on Fei’s 5 frame reversals who wakes up normally after Akuma’s forward throw).

I remember Richard mentioning something about some characters waking up a frame faster so searched the forum and here’s what he said:

This should confirm that Ibuki wakes up a frame faster after Akuma’s forward throw, I’m not sure about Guy, but his reversal is already 4 frames which can’t be safejumped using forward throw x 2 dashes anyway, you can still dash twice and empty jump him to bait the reversal and block in time (which can’t be done vs 3 frame reversals).

I recorded another setup with DF grab to safejump Fei’s 5f frame reversal and lose to Guile’s 4f reversal and was still able to Safejump Ibuki’s reversal with the same setup, which means Ibuki probably only gets up a frame faster after Akuma’s forward throw.

I’ve noticed that stuffing Ibuki’s dash special thing on wake up after forward throw x 2 dashes isn’t consistent, sometimes you’ll fully punish her for not using an invincibile reversal but other times she gets away or you catch her half way through it, pretty weird really and the extra faster wakeup time could be the reason why that happens.

Someone of course please correct me if I said anything wrong.

West is on the money with his first post. We need a good list to refer to. For us to achieve this we need to know how fast each character wakes up, and then we need a second list of their fastest wakeup reversal/option to beat the safejump so that option selects can be devised also.

Does anyone have a list of character’s wake up speeds? Once we have that we can start on an actual list.

Vryu extracted the wakeup timings for all makotos knockdowns from here SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV Wiki - ??? So get someone who knows jap to find the equivalent list for akumas knockdowns and you’ll be set.

I really wish there was a translated version of the whole wiki. Google Translate does an ok-ish job.

For example:

Target Combo
??? Australian demons target combo does not exist.

I don’t think Makoto’s opponents wakeup time after her various knockdowns will definitely match Akuma’s knockdowns, because some characters wakeup differently compared to Akuma’s own different knockdowns (his forward throw vs other knockdowns mostly). I and Richard Nguyen have tried to post the different times opponents wakeup vs Akuma’s knockdowns, here’s what has been compiled so far (quoting my earlier post in this thread in-case you’ve missed it [just edited it to add Ibuki’s wakeup time]):

As always, if you think any information is incorrect please let me know so this list wouldn’t confuse anyone.