You’re completely missing the point. Let me help you. The point people who are against it are making (besides the dumbasses who keep jumping in with YO YOU PICKED GURLZ OVER ___ shit) is that it sends a poor message and/or won’t produce the results that they’re hoping for.
You say you’re anxious to see how many good girls there are out there. I’m telling you that good girls aren’t going to come specifically for a vagina owner’s tourney, and the girls who do join that tourney that wouldn’t have competed otherwise aren’t going to be good. Hell, you said it for me: the majority of the girls who would be at evo would be there regardless of if this tournament happened or not. That’s not growing the community. We also know a number of girls are NOT down with the idea, so there’s that. Also, your suggestion that the girl tourney might serve as extra motivation for some of the few girls who do play semi-competitively is a little unlikely. if they’re already playing, they shouldn’t need an all seated-urination tournament to give them further motivation. It’s one thing to train for a ladies’ tournament because that’s the latest tournament and you happen to be a lady; it’s another thing to train for a ladies’ tournament which is *running concurrently with an open, international touranment in the same game during the *same event.
The only good argument I’ve heard for this thing was that girls who happen to be watching at home would be more interested if there was a girls’ tournament, and that’s not much of an argument. First, what girls who don’t play are going to be watching an Evo stream anyway, and second, how many female stream monsters do you really expect to convert to serious players? Still, that’s the only way I can see their being any benefit at all. At best, you gain some fleeting stream groupies and a handful more players. At worst, you alienate a lot of female players.
People keep bringing up Gods Garden but neglect to mention that it was an invitation event. Evo prides itself as an open tournament, so this sort of flies in the face of what Evo supposedly stands for. People bring up LOSF. LOSF is a great example of how fruitless this is. LOSF had a few girls who took it seriously and a whole bunch who were trained by their boyfreinds or whomever. And, when it was over, half those dames don’t even touch the game anymore. Moreover, it was an isolated tournament and the only event, as opposed to being some side freak show during a bigger overall event.
The ideal of making the community more palatable for female newcomers is a noble one, and one i endorse. I just don’t think this ladies’ tournament accomplishes that at all, and I think it runs the risk of doing just the opposite.
Actually, this same debate has appeared in the chess world, and I consider that debate to have been settled in favor of the existence of women’s tournaments. (I can’t remember the websites where I read up on opposing sides of the controversy, but it’s well documented; a few minutes with google should turn up the relevant pages.) Those tournaments and leagues are crucial for aspiring female chess players, for two reasons:
Such tournaments honor the efforts of young and upcoming players. They communicate to them that even though chess is primarily a male dominated sport (with a handful of top class women players competing at the highest echelons, true,) it’s important to create special tournaments to make the game, as a competitive sport, more inviting to female players.
Role models are really crucial for young players. Again, it’s about the honors handed out at these events, but this time, it’s an indirect effect. ALL players (in street fighter especially) can understand why having a role model to hero worship keeps them playing the game even after they’ve hit a plateau in their playing strength. It happens to be easier for up-and-coming women players to identify with top level WOMEN players. Therefore, in chess, it has been shown that giving top women players special leagues and tournaments that allow them to compete directly AGAINST EACH OTHER is conducive for the kind of hero worship promoters have been trying to encourage among young, female players.
Actually, the argument that there are already top female chess/SF players, so why insult them by giving them a special league/tournament, misses the point entirely and displays considerable ignorance about how special leagues/tournaments, in practice, actually do a great deal to promote sports IF EXECUTED CORRECTLY. If this women-only tournament at EVO is a about creating a spectacle, with “cat fights” in bikinis and tawdry displays of sex appeal, then the Cannon brothers should go shoot themselves in a parking lot somewhere–what they are in effect doing is exploiting a PR/marketing opportunity by going for the lowest common denominator. (At that point, it really WILL be demeaning to women players.)
Also, IMO, a women’s tournament is a great opportunity for forcing the scene TO GROW THE FUCK UP. If people want EVO to one day be something they can go to after they get married and have kids, it might be a good idea to try to make sure, starting now, that EVO is a place you would be WILLING to bring your wife and kids. Running this tournament in a way that makes it clear that EVO is about CLASS and RESPECT will certainly certainly go a long way to proving that. If it turns out it can’t done in that way, then I agree with everyone who has said that we should not be having a women’s tournament at all.
The key idea here is that it’s about creating a “women’s tournament,” not a “women-only tournament.” If EVO can find somebody (best to make sure it’s a woman) who would be willing to organize this event and act as a public spokesperson, it would do a great deal towards making sure this event doesn’t get steered down the wrong path. (In other words, to make sure “bikini battles” don’t happen.) As I said already, this has to be done right, or not done at all–an important part of it is making sure the women players who play in this tournament feel the same sense of responsibility AS A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY the same way John Choi and Alex Valle do when they step on-stage at EVO main events. If it’s just going to be about a bunch of glorified FPS-playing magazine vixens puckering their lips at “joysticks” while flaunting their juicy bits at the camera, then please, PLEASE just shoot this horse before it leaves the barn.
they can execute, have no mind games, and have no concept of footsies (uness its under the table feet games)
like dentron said, it will increase the pussy to dick ratio. it will be easier to try to get laid now, sweet talk girlies with my frame data
in all seriousness this is a bad idea. they can compete in the main tournament like everyone else and make it to the big screen like everyone else. EVO use to be a serious thing and is becoming more and more of a joke and the years go by. the groupies and scrubs are hindering this community, but all ya’ll care about are attendance numbers. sure it’ll be fun and wont be taken serious, but its a waste of time. and time is something that cant be wasted at a major
worst comes to worst a lot of ppl will start looking for another major to attend. but dont worry you’ll still have top players showing up to collect everyones money
And even then, I think a strong female role-model that competes in the real tournament would be more inspiring to these hypothetical stream watchers (there might be some female viewers that are not already into it, that are watching with friends or just stumbled in - if I saw a stream on ustream with 20000+ viewers I know I’d want to check it out).
But yeah, the benefits of this seem questionable.
What girl that isn’t:
already a player
or
a girlfriend brought along with a male player
is going to enter?
Girls just don’t drop by video game tournaments in Las Vegas at random and decide to enter. And semi-competitive girls don’t take expensive trips to try out an all-fem tourney at Evo. I think.
If women want to compete, they’ll compete. Womens only gives the impression they are not good enough. My girlfriend enters Tekken tournaments and has never entered a female only one. It’s just a degrading concept honestly. The only reason sports have seperate competitions is because in football or soccer and basketball is we are physically. different. There’s no counter picking in RL. A dude built like zangief naturally will whoop over a girl built like cammy.
In video games, there’s no muscle involved. Just execution and knowledge. Will it help encourage females? no. If they’re interested then they’re already interested.
^^^thats a fuckin WALL of TEXT up there^^^ I DISCOURAGE WALLS!
yeah though i can see how females dont always feel welcome in the game community (all 3 of em) cus honestly (myself included) we say things we probably shouldn’t say in the company of women.
but i do like the idea of females in the F.ighting G.ame C.ommunity. i’ve only ever been beaten by a girl a *few times in MvC2 online. she was pretty okay and she didn’t play S-tiered teams.
i think the femme fatale thing isn’t a bad idea but an intresting one. what if 100 girls show up? more?
that’d be crazy even though i doubt that many would turn out since the gamer stereo type is smelly,scrawny/fat,with an annoyin attitude. (no offense to anyone)
though the FGC is usually full of realistic looking people i think. i dont know anyone good at a fighting game who falls under that stereo type.
i hope mad girls show up, so i can serve them nicely and let them know that fighting game people welcome them (with open arms).
So many dirty jokes and puns hopd into my mind. glad i have self control.
and to the guy who posted above me, women generally dont like stereo typical* gamers, this way they can battle with out being hassled and actually have some other female friends to make in the FGC
just wanted to add that comparing men/women’s sports to men/women’s gaming is a baaaad idea. Too many variables. Women have too many tough choices in life, down to how they look and act. A 6’6" 300 lb guy is likely going to be looked at for football or basketball or baseball or hockey. A similar girl will likely face a life of ridicule for not ‘fitting in’ and would definitely not be looked at for the same sports. Look at previous experiments with women in sports (mainly the NHL or hockey), where girls got in, got murdered, and promptly exited. People aren’t interested in seeing a girl hit a great double and play solid defence and shoot well from the free throw line, they wanna see the long ball and fist fights and dunking.
Hell, Canada’s women’s hockey team has been trying to get their sport to become contact, even though it’s been stated that a contact sport could potentially cause breast cancer in women.
Now take video games, and you can see that a girl has virtually the same advantages as a guy in video games. It’s muscle memory and button pressing…not exactly out of their league. The only advantage is that gaming is more widely accepted with males than it is with girls. Guys have been getting together since kids and competing in various games, whereas most girls can’t exactly walk up to another girl and ask them which Street Fighter character is their main.
I’m hoping in the future this will change, but I doubt we’ll see that happen for ages.
It’s also sad that women get a ‘female only’ tourney, and are upset by it (they see it as being ‘put on stage’). It would’ve been better to call it a no boys tourney, and STILL let any girl enter the so called “men’s tournament.”
Do you think the girls in the WNBA were upset about having to play in an all girls league, or did they see it as a chance to move forward?
Well, I agree that the idea has the potential to be bad, but it’s not doomed to failure. To link your post back to my earlier one about chess, women don’t suffer any natural disadvantage in chess, yet women’s tournaments there have been very beneficial to promoting their sport among young, female players.
To reduce it to a sound-bite: it’s about creating a “women’s tournament” not a “women-only tournament.”
IMO Most chicks are too scared to compete against men at tournaments as big as Evo. I mean if you’re bad and get beat down people are gonna be like(Not all just the judgemental twats) "Lol shes a girl why’d she try … she got ownt haha"
But then with a female tourney…girls feel they actually have a chance to get a place in the tournament, something that makes you feel a bit better than getting in last.
For the woman who have the balls to compete in the other tourney they will, but for the shy/scared ones…or the ones who kinda wanna throw themselves out there for attention to look pro(It does happen ;~;) they’ll play in the female tourney only.
I don’t think it’s a GREAT idea, but it does help get the girls who’d usually be too scared to play against the big mean scary boys to come out and try, and maybe meet some people who can help them man up.
I used to be piss shy til I met some gamers, they got me out of my shell and into fighting games (Just sf4 mostly…for now) Girls just need some support, that’s all this tourney is…a bit of support.
^what you say is nice and all but the fact is that trying to hold a girls only SSF4 tournament for a scene of girls that exist in the dozens does not promote a good air…either they will became a laughing stock, or just “eye candy” because they are girls to a crowd of 1,500.
The gaming scene in general is male dominated, usually male kids and teenager and those over 21 that don’t have serious girlfriends or wifes. So they don’t know how to treat women in general… Trying to shove girls into the spot light for anything other than hype or cool points is stupid. And will result in drama or worst.
EVO is the tournament of the US where the best of the best play for the top spot…man, woman, homo, dyke, or all the above.
Would any of you who thought this womens only tournament was a good ideal think a gay only tournament is a good ideal too?
Yah, I know a lot of SRK members don’t like walls of text, sorry about that. I got a little carried away. To sum up my wall of text in a sound-bite: it’s about having a “women’s tournament,” not a “women-only tournament.”
Well, I think you have a good point, since if it ends up being that the women’s main event is going to be a shitty blanka used to using lag tactics vs a tiger-shot spamming Sagat, it’s not going to inspire anyone.
But if the problem is a small player base, then making the tournament invitational-only (the way God’s Garden was, as somebody mentioned up-thread) is a way around the problem.
A tournament like this can be done right, if there is the will among the EVO staff to make sure it happens.
I’m saying chicks are scared to play and get embarrassed, I could be wrong…I was kind of scared when I started playing, I didn’t want to look pathetic and scrubby, and I’m sure there are other girls who feel that way.
That’s what I’m saying. . . .
Who says that there aren’t men who feel that way too? Thing is you don’t see scrub only tournaments (well until now :P), they either get over it and compete or leave.
I’m confused. Do you consider putting GOOD girl gamers (not groupies) on stage and streamed to the rest of the world a good or bad thing? If you think it’s a good thing, what’s the best way to do that?
Yah, okay, rereading my post, I sound like one among the other thousands of EVO stream-watching airheads whose arrogance is only outmatched by their sense of entitlement. It’s not like I’ve ever done anything constructive to organize EVO right?
I hope EVO staff members that happen to read my post will see my suggestions in the positive spirit in which they were intended and not in the negative way they are sort of coming out. I think the idea should be to try to make the tournament a “women’s tournament,” not a “women-only tournament.” I hope they can wade through the wall of text in my earlier post if my meaning is too opaque.
Girls just need some support, that’s all this tourney is…a bit of support.
I think the idea should be to try to make the tournament a “women’s tournament,” not a “women-only tournament.” I hope they can wade through the wall of text in my earlier post if my meaning is too opaque.