According to the ECC’s I’ve been too, moral support and tits.
I don’t think this is sexist at all. I think EVO staff should be offended that this event is being called sexist.
What it’s trying to do is trying to get quite possibly the most diverse community in gaming to get even more diverse by trying to add women in the mix. I don’t see this as a special olympics at all. I think the affirmative action analogy is wrong. First of all, in affirmative action,a likely case is someone is going to get the job, and someone won’t. The women’s tournament which is expected to be small, is NOT taking away from 3s, cvs2 (plz vote for this btw), and mvc2 as stated already.
What might, and most likely will be sexist is the horde of young men in a vegas atmosphere who will shout nasty things to females.
Another way of looking at this situation, and what possibly may turn your current view on this now is to look at the FPS community: there are few racial minorities in PC FPS, as seen in the documentary FRAG. What if there was an Unreal Tournament tournament just for minorities? Is it racist? Possibly not. Maybe it is. It depends on what premise the organizeres are doing that for . I see it as an attempt to invite a new demographic into the scene. Others will see it as racist. The fact is, if you are not white in those games, chances are slim that you are going to win in that tournament. The thing is, I think race and sex have different stigmas in society. There are all-ladies gaming clans, but I’ve never heard of an all insert race-clan either. As many have stated before, if the players are willing to accept it, then it’s ok.
As long as there are girls willing to do it, and the tourney is just for fun I’m pretty baffled as to why this is being criticized. There are tons of creepy and intimidating guys in any gaming scene and something like this can only encourage more diversity in the scene…
I’m all for this and I think a lot of people are looking at this from the wrong perspective. This is about attracting new blood from a previously untapped well of recruitment. Will it change things up a bit to have a tournament like this? Yes, but to attract people who, because they were scared away or flat out laughed out of the community, are outside your target demographic, you have to make compromises.
If this works it could have FAR reaching consequences for the community. If women start playing these games, it will not only open it to 54% of all humans, but guys who have stayed out of entering tournaments because of the same cultural stigmas will start coming, as well. Then their friends pick it up, and so on. If the naysayers would just pause and allow themselves to think bigger, it’ll make more sense. Think outside of your bubble.
To everyone saying that it’s degrading to have a special tournament for women, I think it’s an outstretched hand to a group of people who think we want nothing to do with them. EVO represents the FGC in this country, and for them to make a gesture like this can go a long way toward changing some perceptions about who we are as a community, and individuals.
This is spot on. I think that tourney organizers need to strongly consider disabling all embedded chats in the future. I’ve been repulsed by some of the comments that come through there during every tournament I’ve watched, and I’m a hetero male. This can do nothing but hurt the community going forward. Advertisers see that behavior and think that maybe they’ve made a mistake by associating their brand with the tournament. And potential new players, that aren’t 12-15yo males, write us off as a bunch of maladjusted, racist teenagers with self-esteem issues. Something worthy of consideration, I think.
This is a side tournament that’s women only, correct? So women can still enter the main tournament? Entirely laudable, especially if it gets coverage. It’ll encourage more female players that dislike the male-dominated environment to come.
And if anybody says that women have less of a fighting spirit than men, I wholly encourage them to go to a unisex Judo session at their local sports club and tell that to the female sensei. Whilst muscle density is higher in men, skill is universal.
EDIT: And on the chat issue, just start swinging the banhammer more.
EDIT2: I also fully support a “Baby’s first EVO” tournament. An extra, hopefully easier, tournament for newbies would be a great way of getting the young lot along - entrance parameter simply meaning you’re not on a “really good players” list and it’s your first EVO.
I can’t go, though. Stupid 600 round trip flight fees!
It also introduces the idea that girl players need their own bracket because they physically cannot play against guys. If anything this is patronizing girl players.
To any argument saying “well we want them to start playing”, theres nothing stopping them from entering the regular SFIV bracket. So instead of actually running another game that people want to see, we get “OMG LOOK AT ME IM A GIRL AND I PLAY VIDEO GAMESZZZZ”. Plenty of people are hungry to see Melty Blood, or Guilty Gear, or even Soul Calibur.
I don’t like the idea, and the two girls I’ve talked to that play fighting games came out and said flat out that they don’t like the idea of this at all.
Reposting from the EVO thread since seems like there is a lot of conversation here too:
I know I am late to the party here but in regards to the female only tournaments, I think it would be better to showcase unity between male and female players and make it a 2v2 tournament where each girl pairs up with a guy. I know this sounds like a corny school dance type of thing but I think it would be really entertaining to watch and could have some really interesting outcomes.
ROM and Super Yan are a perfect example of two people simply working together to get better at fighting games and I think there are a lot of other potential female/male teams out there as well. I think this would also encourage girls to compete becuase they could bug their boyfriend or whoever else to enter with them and really would make the whole thing a lot more enjoyable for everyone involved.
Maybe I’m missing the point here but I just feel like if we put a little more thought into this we can turn it into something that everyone can agree on.
I think it would be interesting to try it first and see what happens. If only 4 females turn up, it’d be rather pointless. But at least you can learn from that and go on from there - maybe next time you advertise that aspect more.Drum up more interest in advance etc.
The worst thing that could happen is no females enter at all. And since this is a specific sub- tournament just for them, there’s no major cock-ups. Noone has lost anything and heck, if that is the eventuality then the organisers have xyz amount of extra time for the rest of the tournaments.
The greatest thing that could happen is a massive and sudden influx of female players that elongates the tournament —> surely that’s a full of win statement if I have ever saw one, especially in regards to expanding the fighting game community.
Tl;dr
Try the female only tournament and learn from the outcome.
P.s; the chances of me going to a any tournament this year are slim to none due to the fact I’m studying full time. So I don’t particularly mind either way - I get jack out of the outcome.
p.p.s; Any puns in this reply are purely coincedental. Don’t give me that much credit.
I like your idea, for the M/F partner competition.
Also I have been training a few female players in the past amount of time and the biggest obstacle is showing them they can play without stigma, as long as they play hard and are ready to take criticism like any of the guys would. I feel a M/F tourney would accomplish the same goals, include everyone and be better overall, Ladies can you weigh in on this one? Props to haunts for a great idea
All-girl exhibition sounds much, much more demeaning.
I asked my girlfriend about this last night, and she said she’d never enter something like that because she would feel like everyone was watching, just because she’s a cute girl, and that she’d feel more like some kind of spectacle than an actual player.
I’d say a M/F Teams tournament is a much better idea than what’s currently being done. The potential downside is that you could still wind up with the stigma that the men are carrying their teams, however true or untrue that actually would be.
This is absolutley correct and one of the downfalls i openly recognize, but TBH i don’t care if a top player carries someone to the finals, It would still be super fun and i would be still entering to have fun with a female friend and cheer her on 
Main problem I see is why this is taking up a EVO slot… :tdown:
Troglodyte means cave dweller. I think there are quite a few women that would mop the floor with most of the men in any fighting game.
Ink stated multiple times that this didn’t take up a spot for any other game…if they cancel this event, nothing else takes its place.
So its not really “taking up a slot” per se, especially since its during SF4 singles.
My bad, I thought I recalled it being said it took up one of the slots for main events.
That said, I still think this is pointless…but not necessarily harmful depending on how the event is handled.
I just don’t see why they need their own division.
Since when did people enter tournaments just to be viewed by other people? Like I said in my post that you edited out(?), if it’s for fun and there are girls interested there is absolutely no problem. It’s about providing an opportunity for a group of people that probably feels largely alienated from the fighting game community to feel welcome in it, not as a substitute to the main tourney but as an extra side event… Everyone who is treating it as some sort of spectacle for attention whores to be gawked at for playing video games by a crowd of guys has missed of the purpose of the event. Any girl who isn’t interested can choose to only enter the normal tourney. As mentioned, it’s not like it is a main event at Evo taking the place of another game so not sure why you bring up gg/mb/sc
just have an invitational (8 or 16 entries) of the best female SF4 players in the nation and promote it on female gamer sites (if those exists)
the female scene in SF4 is small but somewhat growing
not big enough to warrant an all out tourny at EVO (albeit a small one)
test it out this year and see the kind of response you guys get
no one watches the NBA finals to see a tournament between bench players
so why would we thrust into the spotlight players who havent honed their skills yet?
none of us want to watch sloppy play
PS on a side note I do believe females can hang with males in SF…I remember many moons ago a 3s player named Mayuko in the southern california area who was really good with Chun Li…a girl that could play footsies AND late 2in1 into SA2?? yes she was that dope
Something I find interesting is that in my original post, when I asked for names of US female players, Watson was the only one who offered an example: USMC ogre’s wife, who interestingly enough, was not referred to by her first name, or even an SRK handle. On a business level, I can understand it as SRK co. trying to capitalize on the popularity of SF4 by expanding their player base and perhaps even garnering media attention. But, as a business, SRK should also be concerned with its image to it’s player base, and if SRK wants women to incorporate their player base, then the answer to the question “what is the role of girls and women in the FGC” should not be one defined by a predominantly male player base (as this thread is attempting), but rather it should be one defined by the very women who would potentially be trying to incorporate themselves in the community, because based on the lack of response I got from my original question in this thread, I am lead to conclude that the answer to the question of “what is the role of girls and women in the FGC” is simply “there is none.” Of course, this should not be taken to mean “there never will be a role for women if the FGC,” but rather, it should be a frank appraisal of the current status quo. How can SRK be expected to be taken seriously by women when SRK doesn’t even take women seriously in the first place (i.e. holding a “women’s” only tournament). The very existence of such a tournament implies a perception of inequality towards women. Whether it be SRK’s intention or not, this is how it will be perceived by women.
If SRK truly wishes to incorporate women, then the first thing to do is to actually GET women… and the way to do that isn’t by holding a segregated tournament, but by first actually getting them interested in the game(s) that we all love. Baby steps people… One thing that should be done IMMEDIATELY, is to get a tally of all current SRK members that are female. Once you have those numbers you know where you stand, and you can start aiming towards a goal. You can ask current members about any women they know who are interested in fighting games and get them to get an SRK handle.
Another thing SRK will have to face is that in an actual competition, men will find it rather emasculating to lose to women. Men in particular find this rather hilarious (e.g., the phrase “you throw/play like a girl” is a genuine insult that will chip at the masculinity of a man. The potential emasculation of men by women by being men at a competition that is primarily male is simply a bigger issue in itself that SRK is currently ill-equipped to handle. Perhaps this is another reason towards holding an all female tourney, but it simply replaces one problem with another. That is, now women don’t have to worry about emasculating men, instead, they can worry about being seen as inferior to them with respect to fighting games.
Another problem has to do with the sausagefest that typically is fighting game tourneys: That is, in a male-dominated competition, imagine how intimidating it would be being the lone woman there. Guys will constantly be hitting on you. It’s awkward enough being the only woman there, but constantly rejecting passes guys make only exacerbates the awkwardness of being the only woman there. I mean, it’s tough enough having to prove yourself as a player, but as a female player… in all honestly, I’m willing to bet that NO ONE will take her seriously, not because of her skill, but because people will look at her, see she’s a woman, and judge her on her physical attractiveness (or lack of it) as opposed to her actual capacity as a player.
In sum, if SRK wishes to expand, they need to cater to women as opposed to segregating them.
The only way I can see this work is having some sort of prize at the end…and I’m not talking about pot winnings. We need something truly meaningful…perhaps a seed in top 32? There were 16 people last year who automatically skipped pool play from the gamestop thing. Daigo/Dan got seeded without pushing a damn button.
If you guys are really going to put on this side-show (and lets be honest here, this is nothing more than a side-show) for the crowd to see, I want to see the winner of it get automatic entry into semi’s. Hopefully whoever wins does well enough in top 32 to encourage more girls “hey, that chick is beating the shit outta that dude, we don’t need these special tournies next year because I see females can hang with males!”
This better be a one-time thing, because if we have yearly Femme Fatale bullshit then that’s a sign of it clearly not working.