It has been tried though, and it hasn’t worked.
Woman are good for only one thing… well sometimes two things 
thats only if you talk to them wielding a red rose and sniffing it with your eyes close while speaking to them…do this and your guranteed
oh and have friend in the background play random castanets
Vega for female PR spokesman?
Exactly
My 2 cents -
It seems to me the idea is to expand this community. The FGC is probably 90% male/10% Female or more. In order to create a balance, a tournament such as this could be necessary.
If you look at other genres such as FPS games, there are probably more women or female clans, but the balance between male and female players is closer to 80% male/20% female (might even be the same as fighters).
There are many players both male and female who play fighting games that would like to compete, but how do you reach out to them?
Whether this event fails or succeeds, you have to thank SRK for trying. If you can think of a better way to reach out to more players to ensure growth of the FGC, please post here.
Well, I think that nobody wants to hear me keep bringing up the chess example, but since people keep posting stuff like, “OOK! Female tourney is discrimination,” I’ll bring it up again.
Female tourneys are inherently discriminatory. That’s true by definition–if by “discrimination” we’re referring to distinguishing between one thing or another. What is NOT true is that they are sexist.
Women’s chess exists not because women lack natural ability like men–it’s just that chess is considered a boy’s game, so the people that play it and become good at it are men. That’s it. Chess is different from physical sports where men have a natural advantage–and yet there are still women’s leagues. Why is this?
Women GMs like the Polgar sisters, who are ranked among the strongest chess players in the world, who received an insane amount of training and mentoring from a young age, all support women’s chess, not because they like being degraded by men, but because they want to promote the game and inspire young, female players who still have the free time to put energy into the game and thereby reach the strongest levels of the sport.
There have been all kinds of special leagues in sporting history–from black baseball leagues in the United States before the civil rights movement to women’s chess leagues today. While all of them promoted the sport within the social circle they restricted membership to, what is different between them is why they were created, which has directly impacted whether they’re still around today. Black baseball leagues existed only because racism existed; it collapsed when Major League Baseball was integrated. Women’s chess, on the other hand, was created to promote the sport, because women, statistically speaking, do not start playing chess from an early age, because they think it’s a men’s game. I don’t have links, but you can read the controversy about this online via google, and see how all the arguments heavily favor the creation women’s leagues/tournaments. I remember reading one women GM’s article where she said that she has PERSONALLY seen the effect of women’s championships motivating young, female players to invest energy into improving their game. After knowing this, how can you still call women’s tourneys sexist? They’re only sexist if these events are predominantly attended by attention whores and if the event is publicized in ways that belittle the efforts of the players and focus on their looks or controversial persona. (I’ll get to how to fix this in a minute.)
To people who are calling this “affirmative action” as if that is sufficient ground for dismissing the idea of a women’s tourney, I can only shake my head and ask you if you know how academic scholarship programs at universities work. Need-based scholarships (as opposed to merit-based scholarships) have been around at universities for ages, and have been shown to overwhelmingly favor racial minorities. Need-based scholarships given out by universities happen to swamp merit-based scholarships given out at those same universities, and it’s done that way for a reason. For those who don’t know, they’re only called “need-based scholarships” for political reasons, and in fact the people who supported the initiative in the earliest days supported the idea because they knew it would help out racial minorities and their communities in the long run. However, going off and discussing that would be REALLY going out on a tangent though, so I’ll just leave that argument for now and save it for later in case someone actually wants to debate me on that subject.
People who are worried that the women’s event is going to be attended only by attention whores, which will only lower the morale of women who attend the event anyway, I think you’re forgetting something. EVO is about many things, like hype, East Coast vs. West Coast, and promoting the scene, but remember that EVO is also about CASH. You really think the female players are going to be insulted if winning their tourney means paying for the hotel rooms, the plane ticket, and some gambling money on the side? Money is objective and quantifiable–at the end of the day, even if there are misogynistic assholes on this message board who continue to scoff at tourney results in the women’s section, at least those women placed in SOMETHING. They are getting MONEY out of this, and at the end of the day, MONEY TALKS.
I think a bigger concern is whether there are enough female players with a minimum skill level to sustain an event like this, so that substantial cash prizes can be awarded, and also whether the (predominantly male) crowd can be made to behave itself and cheer for “their player” in a respectful fashion. The second concern isn’t as critical as it’s primarily logistical–the first concern is a fundamental one and will make or break whether this tourney can actually happen. And that’s just whether the tourney can happen or not–organizing it and pulling it off so that it isn’t a public relations disaster will take A LOT of planning and work.
Might as well make girl tournaments everywhere. After Evo, why compete with men when you can be “safe” on the women’s side?
How bout Girls MM’s!!
What I would personally like to see is the Evo staff encouraging some of the stronger Japanese female players to compete in the main tournament. I think that would go a long way towards creating female role models and hype among the female portion of our community.
In the end though I think this is fine as long as women are allowed to compete in the “unisex” event. I mean how degrading is this really going to be if the women also have the ability to play in the regular event? I think every woman entering tourneys at Evo should enter both SFIV tourneys so we can definitely see that they are serious about SF. I mean the cats out of the bag at this point and there’s no point IMO to scrap the ladies event. I know Evo and they are the guys that actually ran a gameboy game that wasn’t even a fighting game one year. ** If Evo is daring enough to run a non fighting game as a tourney game at Evo YOU KNOW DAMNED WELL they’re not scraping this**. If the women were not allowed to compete in the main SFIV event then yeah I would say it makes no sense and just to scratch it since that wouldn’t be doing anything for the community at all. Though I think if this is advertised the right way and women are encouraged to enter BOTH SFIV tourneys that would be doing a lot more good for the scene than everything. They’ll still get a chance to prove themselves in the regular event and the ladies event will be there so people can see that girls are playing SF.
The emphasis should be on making sure the ladies also enter the regular unisex world tournament. ** If even 5 ladies decide to only enter the ladies event then it’s basically a failure. ** There’s no other way for ladies to truly be amongst us as players and bring enlightenment to the scene if they don’t actually play and interact with us. We should talking and learning new strats and clashing our wits with theirs just like we would as men.
This is something I’ve been feeling for awhile now. We have not been welcoming to new/inexperienced players, at all. Regardless of gender.
I’ve read a lot in this thread about EVO being a throwdown between the best of the best. Absolutely, it is the championship series. But if you know you aren’t the best and maybe don’t even want to be the best…what’s left? As is, we have nothing that accommodates players of lesser skill. Everyone is simply told to step their game up and go home, without really thinking about the implications of what that means, or everything that involves.
So in a way, its like wanting to play some football, but your only option to do so is the NFL.
If I were in a position to go to EVO, I would go and actually enter. I know I wouldn’t win - my main purpose in going would be to watch matches, enjoy the atmosphere, and get to play games. And hey, see how far I get in the tournament. If a girl gamer is also competitive and has the same mindset, then this works for her as well. But if not, then maybe she doesn’t have much of a reason to want to go.
So I certainly understand the reasoning behind the event. And I also understand the reaction of it being sort of a slap in the face to the serious girl gamers who want to compete. I’m sure the EVO staff did as well, which would be the reason why girls can enter the main tournament as well. If you want to compete, you can. If you know you are not the best and just want to play some games and have some fun, you still can.
Regardless of gender, I wish our community was more open to everyone who is interested in the game but not necessarily the “play to win” mentality. In other games or competitive events, there are different levels - casual, intermediate, and then advances/pros, but for games, I don’t think we have anything between casual and pros. Its a difficult issue to address.
So if the idea of the women’s only tournament was made just to give women a better environment in which to play, I can understand and support that. It doesn’t mean we think they can’t compete nor will we let them, just that we acknowledge this isn’t exactly the most welcoming community, and here’s one way of trying to change that.
Someone made the argument earlier in the other thread about waivering entrance fees.
If the reason for doing this is indeed to bring more women into the tournament community why not simply do that overall.
No entrance fees for females at EVO at all.
Would that not be a better suggestion than a tournament that it seems neither males nor females approve of ?
Hi there. I think the entrance fees idea is intriguing and worth considering.
However, I kind of take issue with your statement that it’s “a tournament that it seems neither males nor females approve of.” If you look through the thread, there’s plenty of people speaking up for both sides, and some in the middle.
That shit ain’t happening at Evo. Evo’s banned money matches on the Evo floor now. No girl purse slamming… :sad: Shit’s reduced to Arturo stealing money in hotel rooms and seeing the video 6 months later. Sanford vs. Duc Do will never happen again. I’m glad my first year at Evo was 2k6. I can’t imagine not being there for that. I still wish I was on the Evo floor for Daigo Parry cuz I’m a fanboy like that. :lol:
Ultra Dave was just winning the fight IMO. I didn’t see anything extreme about what he was saying. To say that what he was saying was extreme to me is the same effect as saying “oh dood ur taking things too seriously now”. Well shit got serious. You can’t bring up Affirm Action without being serious or extreme unless you’re a hell of a comedian.
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Sexism is discrimination on the basis of sex. That’s the definition of sexism. A female-only tournament is sexist by definition. That isn’t a value judgment. It doesn’t make it right or wrong. That’s just the fact of what it is. The WNBA is also sexist… that doesn’t mean it’s bad.
I personally think that the female-only tourney is a bad idea, but opinions are like assholes, aren’t they?
My question is, why should we even bother encouraging women to join? What need is there for more female fighting game players?
Well, I agree assholes are ubiquitous, but since you’ve chosen to flex yours, I daresay I’ll flex mine, won’t I? (Pardon the torrent of shit.)
I’m willing to play word games with you, if you’re willing to play them with me. Let’s look up “sexism” in the dictionary, shall we?
1 : prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women
2 : behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex
I’ll grant you the first definition, since the definition states “prejudice OR discrimination…” I wouldn’t consider the women’s tourney an example of prejudice on the lines of sex, but, as an example of discrimination, specifically, simply choosing to distinguish between individuals on the basis of sex? Certainly.
But surely, the second definition gives me something more substantial to work with? The ultimate goal of the women’s tourney is to promote the game among women and to grow the community, and in so doing, help counteract the notion that fighting games are a boy’s game. Perhaps we can reasonably ask how we are planning to encourage women to participate in Street Fighter tourneys in the long run if we are (so people are arguing) demeaning them in the short term. But that’s why we’re talking about this, no? I think I’ve presented my perspective on this point at length, probably to your bemusement, and possibly, disdain. But if your opinion on this issue meant something, why not say something more substantial in support of your opinion instead of writing off opinions, in general, as ubiquitous, and furthermore, implying they are useless?
This thread is here for the purpose of constructive criticism. As I said, if you want to play word games with me, I’m happy to continue, but we could be doing much more with our time in this thread, couldn’t we?
I don’t know why the EVO organizers want it, but my personal hope is that having more women join will force the boys in the community to finally grow up and be men.
Which is why if the end effect of having more girls join is to bring the level of maturity down a few more notches, I think I can agree with everybody who doesn’t want to see it happen.