@ Nooneyouknow
Saw what you posted about Morrigan in the tier thread, excellent effort in trying to convince the others of her strengths. It is disappointing to see Morrigan being ranked so low on many tier lists when no one really knows anything about her tech or even given her a fair shot. She has some excellent normals and better tools than many of the cast (flight cancels, unusual dashes/air dashes, mobility, being self sufficient, an air lvl 3, small hurtbox with surpisingly decent health). Would you say that she is high execution? If you can use her bare bones/basic combos (the ones that try to exclude her multi hitting moves), she can do damage that is not-so-ass. I love to TAC into Morrigan and end it in a level 3 (what other character can do that?).
People say she does low damage, but she can indirectly do lots of damage through her godlike meter assist. I think it is so underrated. By giving an excellent point character frequent access to meter (like Storm or Dorm), you’d have the advantage so long as you call her out sensibly. You can afford to throw out random hypers, which can be great against assists and of course does damage. I am still hopeful that Morrigan will get a buff.
She is very underrated in the current environment, but be careful not to overrate her yourself. She’s nowhere near top 10, by any stretch of the imagination. I don’t even think she’s high execution, she just has some really finiky shit that refuses to be 100% consistent for me, and all of it involves using Blade Kick in combos. Hitting the jM a frame later or earlier than normal can completely fuck up any ground follow up if you intend to do anything but jM-jH-jS-S. On certain teams Dark Harmonizer is very powerful, but it’s also not something that’s needed or fits onto every team. Playing run away with Storm and calling DH from the top of the screen you build meter fast, while also denying the opponent meter, which depending on the match up can really swing a match, or do next to nothing. Her damage does really hold her back, but nowhere near as much as people think. Basically, I think she’s more than viable, but I also think for most teams there are better choices to run. Which is why I personally will keep throwing her pretty much dead center in any tier list.
On a seirous note how awesome would it be if Astral Vision did not disappear if you activated a suepr or tagged out. Shadow Servant from both sides, missles from both sides…TWO dark harmonizers…just wow XD
I’ve decided to re pick up Morrigan (actually somewhat seriously this time and not for Phoenix LOL) and again I will still pretty much be using her as anchor and having her build meter for points. She’s another character like X-23 where until I really delved into her no one really spent any time figuring out her finer points so I wanna see if I can do the same for Morrigan and at least figure out more about how she’s supposed to be played or at least the way Capcom intended her to be played.
What are some ideal bnb’s for her without assists that use or don’t use XF and how much damage can you generate off of them?
What are the general mix ups you apply with her? I know you can do stuff like jump then do instant air dash down S which can ambiguously whiff if you do it low enough to the ground and then hit with s.L into combo. I’ve heard some people say she can do double overhead kinda stuff so I’d like to know what that’s about also.
What are her main tools to get around advance guard without an assist?
How do you land damage off of her air/ground regular or command throws and are there any solid mix ups if you can’t immediately land damage?
What are the main pros and cons she seems to have so far running as an anchor character with XF3? Can she still be pretty strong running on XF2 with an assist?
Dammit DevilJin, I come here to rant about how much I fucking hate Finishing Shower right now, and instead I actually have to give you a serious reply.
Her b&b is basically whatever nets you enough meter that you don’t drop. For the more optimal variants, you have j:h:--:d:-:d::h:-:f::h: jc j:m:-j:h:-j:s: land :s: j:m:-j:h: xx :dp: xx :qcb::s: j:m:-j:h: xx :dp::h: xx :qcf::atk::atk: Damage is up to 580k depending on size and whether you hit the absolute perfect cancel point into Finishing Shower or not.
You also have j:h:--:d::h:-:f::h: jc j:h: xx :dp: xx :qcb::s: j:h:-j:s: land :d:-:d::h:-:s: j:m:-j:m:-j:h: xx :dp: xx :qcb::s: j:m:-j:h: xx :dp::h: xx :qcf::atk::atk: for up to 600k depending on size of target
Both work midscreen or corner, both generate around 1.25 meters iirc. Shadow Blade M is easier to hit Finishing Shower off, but Shadow Blade H is better, so long as you cancel at the absolute perfect time. Cancel a Shadow Blade H wrong, and you’ll entirely whiff the Finishing Shower.
As far as mix ups go, nothing terribly complex, All of her :l: attacks are 4 frames startup, standing hits low, crouching maintains her tiny ass crouching hurt box and gives 40 years to confirm from, jumping can be used in a quick tri-jump style. Air :h: is amazing for box jump cross ups, and is your optimal starte damage wise. Air :s: is 5 frames of start up, and hits 3 times. Scales the shit out of combos, and I have never been able to link it to anything but standing or crouching :l: off it, but used at minimum dash attack height the third hit is active till you touch the ground and immediately link a stand :l:. The minimum height she assumes after flight activation is perfect for running a full air hunter chain on basically anyone Zero’s height or taller, allowing you to throw 8 consecutive overheads and link into a stand :l: if you wanted to. Vector Drain L has silly range, Vector Drain H is 1 frame, and you can OS the recovery into flight. You can only directly follow Vector Drain up if Morrigan’s back is to the corner when used with a Shadow Servant, or by DHCing Shadow Servant into a very fast OTG Hyper like Hail Storm or Elemental Rage. That said, it gives enough time on a knock down for you to jump, or activate flight, see which direction they roll, and dash after them to set up either a 50/50 box jump, or call a low assist for an unblockable. In short, she can run left/right high/low and command grab mix ups. None of it is going to touch of death without x-factor, but it is very easy to get touches with her. Oh, and Shadow Blade, all versions is 3 frames of start up, and thanks to flight cancels, is safe, and leads to full combos on hit.
To combat Advancing Guard without an assist, you want to chain your grounded block strings to one of 3 hits: :f:, :h:, or :f::h:. The first two give more than enough block stun to safely cancel them into flight and dash back in with an overhead, and the third is normal jump cancelable.
Her air throw is identical to her ground Vector Drain, so it has the same follow ups. Shadow Servant with your back to the corner, or DHC from Shadow Servant to a fast OTG Hyper Such as Hail Storm or Elemental Rage. They can also be followed to an extent if you call Hidden Missiles before activating either one of them.
Pros: With or without x-factor, the overwhelming majority of characters actually lose to Morrigan 1v1. If She’s in x-factor 3, this is true even if they have assists. Cons: If they do still have some assist to keep you out, you’ll likely only manage to kill one to one and a half characters before XF3 times out. If they don’t, you’ll chew through teams quite a bit like Dark Phoenix. Not having a teleport leaves you to worry about pesky assists though. As far as running her with XF2 and an assist, I would not say that’s as good as XF3, unless the assist is a character you can TAC to and DHC trick from like Storm. Morrigan just does not gain much at all from other characters assists. A lock down assist can be helpful, but isn’t necessary, she can zone pretty much indefinitely on her own much like Trish and Storm, and we don’t have Ruby Heart hanging around to hand out power ups. She just doesn’t gain shit from most assists outside of the corner, or something like Lariat or Gustaff Fire.
Bonus: Astral Vision is terribly overrated. It’s has uses; it’s very good for zoning, and of course finishing a DHC trick. But it adds very little damage to combos since it’s too slow to activate mid combo, and it’s punishable by any full screen hyper on activation. I don’t know if you already had any teams in mind for her, but I’d recommend Wesker/Storm/Morrigan(mine, played in reverse order some times), Dormmamu/Storm/Morrigan, and JJJs Morrigan/Storm/Felicia. I really would not recommend running Morrigan without Storm, Hail is just too good to have with her.
Well I wanted a separate team that would be better at shutting down Haggar assists and help build meter for my main character X-23. I’m doing a team of X-23/Akuma/Morrigan since it just happens to work out that like Wolverine, X23 doesn’t really need anything else to survive assist wise if she has Akuma by her side. Her left right mix up with Akuma is even faster and basically unseeable compared to Wolverines and if Akuma hits anything her super quick movement specials and wave dash allow her to get over and follow up into full combos. I could use Storm on that team but Storm’s assists don’t really help X-23 as well since none are really like beams or anything fast enough to give her strong left rights with her mirage feint. It just also happens that Akuma’s beam is great for blowing up assists and forcing them to take chip or play with out an assist and Morrigan’s assist of course will make it so Akuma can just lame out with fireballs and tatsus while constantly getting meter.
Ideally what I want to do is have X23’s short crouch normals work to buy time to pick away at a Haggar assist based team while I turtle away with her talon moves to build meter for Akuma. When I get a good spot I either DHC safely into him or just find a good place to raw tag and save meter and then just go blowing them up with beam supers forcing chip and forcing them to not call Haggar for fear of losing most of Haggar’s life on one blast. The team could also give me a second goal against Phoenix teams of being able to build 4 bars ridiculously fast and then snapping Phoenix in and activating dirt nap and blowing her up with a mix up into it and get her out of the match early.
I’ll read over the stuff you said and slowly add it to my Morrigan game and see what I can do from there. It doesn’t surprise me that she doesn’t really benefit much from assists because there really isn’t very much she can’t do. It’s just people kinda right her off because she doesn’t do insane damage per combo and her only strong assist forces specialized teams where you can only have one attacking assist to protect your point. Luckily X-23 only needs one strong fast assist so she can left right people all day and generally get in. Akuma being second acts as a Storm type character that also doesn’t really need an assist to amount an offense and having constant access to meter covers his hole of being easy to lame out without meter. All else fails another self sufficient character in the back.
And her damage isn’t even that bad unless you go for max meter combos. Those can do some pretty damn ass damage. A basic bnb is still two touches on the majority of the cast, and it’s highly unlikely you aren’t going to bleed a character a bit first with Soul Fists anyway. I know ToD is hot shit, and some character will be doing them reliably even without x-factor in the future, but it’s not like two touches, on a character that gets them fairly easily, is a huge handicap.
I looked over and responded to your team plan in the Team thread, and it looks solid, even if it doesn’t have Morri’s BFF Storm.
I guess you feel Astral Vision doesn’t improve her mix up game enough to warrant using often as anchor? That’s what I thought the main purpose of it was since you can ambiguously (or at least it seems ambiguous) move the fake morrigan around the opponent to make them guess which one is the real one. Any good tricks with that? It lets you flood the screen with projectiles which is good for space control to help you get in.
Plus wouldn’t the start up of the super be mitigated a bit (especially against characters outside of Dorm or Akuma) by just putting a couple fireballs on the screen first and then activating safely? Like if I had to fight down a level 3 XF Wesker I would think it would be nice to have because even one fireball on screen keeps him from doing random maximum weskers and teleports. With astral vision I would think he would pretty much be reduced to perfectly spaced teleports to amount an offense.
The image is always the same distance from the target as Morri her self is, and has a pink particle effect on it. The only possible way you can lose track of which one is real is during x-factor, since the glow can often seem to visually overpower the particles. If you’re in x-factor, it’s a decent damage bonus, and some characters have asymmetrical hurt boxes that it can occasionally take advantage of. Canceling into it from Soul Fist would be safer against Wesker sure, but still not safe. And not helping at all against anyone with a beam. It’s useful, but Sougenmu it ain’t, and it certainly won’t make Morrigan god tier on it’s own like people claim from time to time.
So, Ouroboros is now a level 3, and prevents meter gen. I think Morrigan might have another new best friend coming up.
Astral Vision = reset instant overhead all day. whatever situation corner specific can be replicated mid screen if you are in astral vision mode. meaning. combo on hit. then fly into S instant overhead.lololol
So seeing as there’s not another topic about the UMvC3 Morrigan, I’m gonna figure it’s relatively okay to post in here. Today’s stream had some terrible Morrigans (J.S, S, repeat all day), but did reveal a very interesting tidbit. Morrigan gained a new fireball that has her saying something else, and on hit, she does the same animation as the Dark Harmonizer effect. Silly me in not noticing the health or the meter, but the whole speed of the fireball reminded me of the M version. This might be a very interesting effect if her M version gives an additional benefit upon hit.
Yeah this has been confirmed. Basically Morrigan now has the Dark Harmonizer effect packaged into a fireball which she can use while on point. Even better - when it connects, it steals 1/3rd of the opponent’s meter and gives it to Morrigan. Looks like Ms. Aesland just graduated to a legitimate anti-Phoenix character.
So, from what I have heard the changes so far in UMVC3 she has received have been:
Faster Dashes? Can anyone confirm this? She looked faster on the stream, but the quality was low so who knows.
-Damage Buff.
Finishing Shower has faster startup and missiles travel faster(?)
-New Soul Fist that absorbs 1/3 of the opponent’s meter.
Well, hopefully someone can confirm the changes for her so far, but these changes seem to be going into the right direction, but I hope they buff Vector Drain and fix her backdash. The new fireball could be huge for her though, especially if she can flight cancel it, use it in the air and during combos, and if its effect is essentially doubled in AV. It could end up being a real threat to teams using characters like Phoenix or Strider. It’s also a cool nod to what type of monster she is.
Right now she can follow up only her back throw with Shadow Servant. I hope they fix that and make it so that you can do it off any grab. All her other grabs including vector drain are just not that threatening and don’t do much unless you’re in the corner.
Damn, not to blow anything out of proportion, but I don’t see anyway this wont make morrigan a phoenix counter. Any word on if she got the move as an assist as well? And even against a regular character, there are very few characters who won’t suffer from the loss of meter, couple that with the fact that morrigan gains meter and that is a very nice addition to her arsenal.
ugh! I didn’t read all of nitro noodlez post
I said basically what he said about meter drain fist, fly, astral spamming
It has to be fly cancelable it would be silly if it wasn’t everything is
air ok however I’m not holding my breath for
-:d: