The Penultimate: an X-23 Compilation Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
101

What I’ve been using for incoming.

Dirt nap (of course)
TA H+ Hori/Lockdown assist > delayed :d::h: (stolen from Traumatisch…Works really well since it’s hard for your opponent to know what side you’re on if you time it well and you get free corner pressure on block.
Air throw(combo with otg assist + charged neck slicer)/Air throw fake with j.L (full combo with LMHSxxTA L…)
Dash under/double dash under cr.M (don’t use on characters with strong down+H / falling attacks)
basic MF M + assist stuff.
If you run a good lockdown assist you can always do a jump LMHS string to get them on the ground into a lockdown situation then go to town with hi/low/fuzzy guard stuff.

102

I’m having a hard time picturing the second one. Is it basically hitting them with TA H as they are coming out blocking, they fall as you fly higher, they stay on the ground with the assist, and then the down H will either hit them left or right?

103

You don’t hit them, you essentially fly past the opponent and have the assist hit.

The few times it was used on me, I didn’t manage to block even when I reacted to it, so I believe with some timing it can become an ambiguous situation. Or maybe I just suck (also likely).

Personally, on incoming characters I prefer doing a “meaty” L TA - which leaves in blockstun almost all the way to the ground, (all the way to the ground in Vanilla) - and then blocking an assist upon landing. Afterwards, I do a standard mixup while they’re blocking the assist or during the moment they hit the ground (MF mixups, air grab vs command grab that happens to look really cool if it grabs on the first possible frame).The disadvantage is that I have to act quick and differently depending on whether the TA or assist hit or not, but anyone with any semblance of a reaction time can do that.
The goal with this, even without the mixup, is to make sure the enemy doesn’t escape. A lot of those simple dash under/MF under mixups can be avoided if the opponent has a double jump or airdash or anything similar. I prefer solutions that are universal regardless of matchup, so my top priority is to limit those options first and put myself in an advantageous position. The mixup itself is only the second concern.

104

after reading that TK Crescent Scythe can be canceled on any hit, that’s been my go-to incoming character mixup. early TK CS xx qcf+L to bring them to the ground with an assist to lock them down for one of X-23’s other mixups. she seems to get along exceptionally well with drones, imo, so I’ve been playing with that for the last while because then you get multiple left/rights with a fuzzy guard setup at the end. TK CS will eat up any attempt to airdash out, will force double jumps down into drones, etc. if they airdash into TK CS then they will fall into drones and you can use a TK L CS xx qcf+L to bring them down into a combo.

other tricks - call assist, do qcf+M to slide underneath them. works best with assists that are easy to hit confirm off of.ryu tatsu, drones, centurion rush. just dash up right underneath them and do raw launcher. can be almost as ambiguous as Magneto’s… the hitbox isn’t as good tho.

jump towards j.H j.S j.d+H xx dp+L xx qcf+L confirms into combos, looks like you really know your shit ahah… and forces them to the ground 100% of the time with an opportunity to call an assist for extra lockdown before the DP but it is difficult to space X-23’s j.H where it won’t get scooped up by an air throw. with really fast inputs, s.H xx feint cancel, jump towards, air throw but this one is difficult to get.

her incoming char mixup is just so dirty. you have to be very tight with your execution… even solo she has plenty of possibilities. DP never stops being a good option. d+H does a good job stopping double jumps and air dashes. the timing isn’t even that hard, but you have to make sure you get a DP right away to make yourself safe and continue the blockstring without getting thrown…

combo notes. some might be old news…

if you air throw from the right height, X-23 will space herself perfectly for you to do qcf+M OTG, s.L s.M s.H s.S. self OTG into launch. no xfactor. I’ll have to make a vid to illustrate the height I’m talking about though.

if you ever hit them with a combo starter that puts them in the corner, instead of normals just start doing dp+L xx qcf+L and land straight into a S. increases the damage of a lot of combos once you get a feel for how many DPs you can do.

c.M s.H MFC s.H xx qcb+H j.M j.H xx dp+L xx qcf+L, dp+L xx qcf+L, s.S …
c.M s.H xx qcb+M xx qcf+L, dp+L xx qcf+L, dp+L xx qcf+L, s.S …

if you are feeling like a robot made to combo you can squeeze in extra DPs by doing tiger knee DPs. super jump moves have more hitstun and will let the other guy fall further after qcf+L, letting you connect with a s.S sj.H xx dp+H xx qcf+L. it is possible to do

dp+L xx qcf+L, dp+L xx qcf+L, dp+L xx qcf+L, sj.dp+L xx qcf+L, s.S sj.H xx dp+H xx qcf+L, relaunch…

on any character that is not small or floaty. won’t work on Zero or Wolverine but it’ll work on Dante and the like. very difficult combo but it hurts… I’ve only done it once and am still grinding to try and get it again, but iirc it did 900k for one bar with Nova centurion rush to relaunch and drones to add a bit to the super. that seems high to me tho, could be misremembering. need moar time

105

And I’ve been suprised how many people didn’t know this trick for timing your incoming. After you kill a character, rather than trying to react to the character popping out, pay attention to your opponents health bar and react to the incoming character’s health bar sliding into the main spot. This is almost required for catching people with solo TK CS dirt naps and gives you a much bigger window to react.

For the most part, I’ve decided not to bother with her DPxxTA loops. I sat and tried to grind it out for the first half of ultimate and I’m still not anywhere close to match consistent. (Plus since I use X-23 to level up frank, I have the awesome excuse that I need more hits more than damange :P.)

**X-23 Ultimate jump loop extra rep?: ** I’ve gone back to using the jump loops (c.MHxxMF H, j. MMH, land j.MMHSxxTA L) for my BnB even though she lost one rep of j.MMHS in ultimate. I’m not 100% on the exact combo, but it is possible to omit 1 or 2 of the hits on the first 2 jump loops so that you can get a 3rd full one in.
Something along the lines of: s.MHxxMF H, j.M (delayed) H, land, j.MHS, land, j.MMHSxxTA L. I noticed it the other day but most of my lab time has been spent with XF3 felicia jump loops lately so I haven’t gone back to get it locked down. Not sure if there’s room to fit in a DP in there, but there probably is.

**Question to the group: ** How do you guys time using WXP or Rage Trigger as counter-punishes? The few times I’ve had a chance to use it in a match lately, I can’t get them to come out. I was under the impression that any inputs put in during a super freeze would be inputted during the next active frame but I haven’t seen that happening in matches. I’ve tried varying the timing and I can’t find anything that works consistently… >.>

Will that act as a guard break? I’ve been looking into which of her attacks would be best for that use. If it does, that seems like it could be really good.

106

Weapon X Prime hardly ever works after somebody else’s super flash, unless whatever it is they are doing isn’t going to hit you or needs a lot of time to travel full screen like hsf. on the plus side if you can get this to come out, you will usually win out in the end no matter how much they DHC. they usually have to burn x-factor. Rage trigger should almost always work unless the move is zero frames after the flash… haven’t run into these very often. sometimes it seems like bionic arm is zero frames after the flash, if you are too close to him. the game buffers you inputs for you, do it as early as possible, smooth and solid. no need to rush the input, you just have to recognize what’s going on and make sure your input + button input is done before the super freeze is.

some moves you can’t wait for the flash. hail storm is pretty easy to punish if you are looking for it, but if you wait for the flash you won’t be able to do wxp.

not sure what guard break means in umvc3. :slight_smile: getting rid of their throw invul?

107

As far as guard break, that’s what I’ve been using the term for. It seems like that’s the accepted term for it since I’ll hear commentators use it for spencers j.m> land> anti-air command grab shenanigans. (Cheap fscking sh!t…lol)

And on the counter supers, that’s how I’ve been trying to work it. I guess I’m rushing or mashing or something. If I’m up close, I always try to Rage Trigger since it has less startup and hope that the invulnerability lasts long enough to get em. Once I get past half screen or so I’ll start trying WXP since I figure I’ll usually have enough time to get past the startup.

108

Midscreen Crescent Scythe Loops are still pissing me off lol. Tking Scythe from Mirage Feint H on the left side, I’ve got that down pat. Doing it from the other side is beyond me(DP-motion never comes out), so I don’t TK it, which makes the timing harder, and doesn’t work on Strange, due to his weird hitbox(you have to TK Scythe against him to maintain the height.) Working towards making it BnB-status, I’m close to it, just need to grind it out some more. Doing corner Scythe Loops’s alright though.

And yeah, in terms of countering with hypers, I’m the same, I use Rage Trigger up-close and Weapon X Prime from afar, X Prime’s usually too slow at closer ranges.

Was gonna expand on X-23’s ground mix-ups, but, the X-23 gameplan generally goes through that anyway. Anyone up for MU-discussion?
I’ll lift some of the MU notes from the other thread, if it hasn’t already been listed, and update it for UMVC3-standards.

109

Random note from the lab today. Turns out X-23 didn’t lose her 2nd jump loop…it’s just a tight timing and you can’t do anything past an MH starter or hitstun won’t allow it.

Off s./cr. :m: starter: Does something like 750k and builds a ton of meter.
s.:m::h:xxMF :h: j.:m::m::h: land j.:m::m::h:(delayed):s: land j.:m::m::h::s:xxTA :l: s.:m::h::s: sj.:m::m::h::d::h:xxCS :h:xxTA :l: land otg assist + charged NS s.:s: sj.:h:xxCS :h:xxTA :l: land charged ASxxRage Trigger

Starting off with a TA means you have to cut out the second loop but you still do something like 780/790k and just slightly less meter: :d::h:xxTA :l: s.:m::h:xxMF :h: j.:m::m::h: land j.:m::m::h::s:xxTA :l: s.:m::h::s: sj.:m::m::h::d::h:xxCS :h:xxTA :l: land otg assist + charged NS s.:s: sj.:h:xxCS :h:xxTA :l: land charged ASxxRage Trigger

If you have trouble getting the 3rd loop out or you want to do something a little different you can try doing s.:m::h:xxMF :h: j.:m:(delayed):h: land j.:l::m::m::h::s: land j.:m::m::h::s:xxTA :l: etc… It seems a little more lenient to me, you just have to rush the lmmhs part.

110

OK, so I’m looking into the Dormammu MU.

A few things.

Dorm’s air normals are incredibly jarring. If X-23 can help it, never let him get into the air. If he does get into the air, X-23 has some options to AA him.

  1. st.M can stuff Dorm’s air normals clean if done a bit early. Any later or if the Dorm player tri-jumps quite low, and it becomes riskier. Best done if Dorm is assistless.

  2. Crescent Scythe. More ideal, since if he calls an assist, you’ll either avoid the assist, or hit Dorm and get hit by the assist. Though you lose out on the trade, it’s better than dying.

  3. Air-throw. Successful throw animation avoids assists if Dorm just happens to be attacking with them. If you mess up though…

  4. Stay in the air at super jump height, so he can’t convert as easily and avoid annoying tele-cross-ups combined with assists. Air blocking’s always good.

There’s some assist-specific stuff like Storm’s Whirlwind negating Flame Carpet.

If he ever whiffs Purification, wave dash up and punish him.

Vs Dorm’s incoming mix-ups(Flame-Carpet, call assist, teleport), can X-23 avoid this? Possibly by Crescent Scything? Dunno.
Obviously once X-23 gets inside, it’s standard business as usual, and Dorm’s normals won’t compete with hers at point blank.

If he uses Stalking Flare, just jump into it and eat the chip if you’ve got the health to spare. No use running away from him, unless you have the opportunity to counter with Weapon X Prime. Can’t remember if you can punish Chaotic Flame on block.

Other stuff: Fully-charged Ankle Slice tends to hit once against his weird hitbox when OTGing with it.

That’s all I’ve got for now, don’t really know much. Anyone know anything else about the MU? Any corrections? Dealing with Liberation Spells and whatnot?

111

Random stuff:
Command throw will go over Flame Carpet. Not really sure if you can do it on reaction or not. Use it if you’re feeling gutsy, and in predictable situations (like, Dorm puts himself in the corner).

WXP will punish Stalking Flare fullscreen, even if you activate after the freeze. Rage trigger will usually beat it at point blank. Watch out if they have safe DHCs afterwards.

Raw launcher will beat teleport + crossup. Do it if you’re feeling gutsy.

You can usually avoid the incoming mixup with just H-Talon, or CS + H-talon. The issue is if you do CS + Talon, you’ll put yourself back in the corner if Dorm has teleported behind you.

112

Oh yeah, just remembered one more thing for Dorm. Midscreen, dashup ->charged ankle slice should hit multiple times. In the corner, you can do a quick backdash -> ankle slice (same as midscreen timing). Same deal for Sentinel.

113

I’ve been looking for something reliable enough to smack incoming guys when I don’t have a dirt nap on hand. Nemesis usually DHC’s to her when he’s killing someone, so I always end up with her on incoming. I don’t think I have the right height on my assists for the TA H mixup (triple arrow and clothesline rocket). I didn’t know that LMHS wil bring them to the ground without much hassle, but does it work on air-dashers, and can you get air thrown out of it yourself?

Wow. I had no idea about that. Well, thanks, gonna go try it out soon.

114

I’ll share a bit of tech with you guys.

The H TA + lockdown assist is a multi way mixup (I don’t mean in the sense that it’s left/right, explanation below)

Using Dormammu assist as an example, the idea is time the H TA in such a way that A) the crossup/non crossup is as ambiguous as possible (obviously) but also to B) time assist so that they get caught while being airborne and C) time the H TA early enough so that they are still in the assist as X-23 falls back to the ground. This way, you get another mixup with a dash under (or fake).

I use my Dormammu assist in such a way that they get stuck hovering above the ground as X-23 falls back down. That way, I can confirm if they get hit or not and still have a second mixup at the ready. With this particular situation they are usually close enough to the ground that most air normals or dashes or whatever are not enough to save them from the cross under. They simply have to guess/react and block. I’ve even had situations happen where the timing was so on point that I had enough time to dash under and back again for a 4 way mixup.

Last bit of info for this setup is that if they try to air dash up to get out of it, they dash straight into the area where X-23 just finished her H talon and you get a free Air throw attempt. They can still tech of course but at least you get to keep the pressure up.

edit. also D+H is not a part of the mixup, as you can’t throw/tech/block during d+H should you mess something up, and also d+H has more recovery than just falling regularly, thus giving you less time to follow up. It also doesn’t really contribute to the setup. The timing of the actual moment of crossing is ambiguous enough with them having to blindly feel it out and the ambiguity of the setup isn’t enhanced by using d+H.

edit2. The Dorm matchup is actually one of the MU’s that’s more heavily in X-23’s favor imho. Anything and everything zoning wise can be countered by WXP, an X-23 that’s in on the ground and using MFC to stay in is impossible to keep out because of his limited close range options, all his whiffs (and some blocks) are easily punished by X-23 and she has enough mobility in the air to stay out of trouble. The only way he is going to get X-23 is if she gets put in a bad spot by an assist or a spacing mistake by x-23, by getting a lucky ground throw or x-23 overextending herself and running/diving into a cr. M, flame carpet, air throw or tridash normal.

115

It mostly has to do with reading your opponent. If they’re like to press buttongs on incoming, usually they’re gonna be swinging with an H or S and your L will stuff it out on startup. If you have a really good timing and can have a meaty L or M waiting for them when they come in they would have to mash like hell or have GDLK timing to catch the 1 frame opening to get the throw. If you wait just a moment and lead in with a jump attack unless their throw range is longer than her attack you should be safe and you’ll have blockstun down into the corner.

As far as the exact combo, X-23 has no trouble converting from normal jump height. I prefer jump loops so I just go with a meaty MMHS (or LMHS) land MMHS TA L MHxxMFC MHS etc. (I bet it’s possible to work in a third jump rep even…mental note to check in the lab) You can just as easily do LMHSxxTA L into whatever ground chain BnB you have or, like TMNTemps was suggesting, go into something a little swaggier like lmh2hxxDP LxxTA L into ground combo or more DP loops if you’re a masochist and really like her DP loops.

Anything that works off a MF H in a normal combo should work at incoming height with a little more room for an extra button press or 2 since TA L still has enough hitstun to let you convert for free at that height.

Edit: Also, turns out that someone got a full recording of the Wandles/Clockwork FR match. If you want to know how an X-23 in the second slot team is supposed to work this is a must see. I’m gonna put it in the UMVC3 match vids section for archive purposes also.
[media=youtube]VMHiTBVX5pw[/media]

116

Thanks for the note. I just want a nice way to get a blocking guy down to the ground on incoming, because then X-23’s mixups can happen, and I’m much more comfortable with a ground game than an air game, which is obvious from how my teams are laid out. I’ll go with MMHS when I try that, just because that’s gonna do a bit more damage, if both of them work well.

On another note, wow. Wandles is an excellent X-23. I love the lockdown with iron man’s assist. That instant overhead into two cross-ups by miraging and then dashing back under iron man was smooth. I use her second, so there’s some good stuff in here for me. Surprised he missed the relaunch from her X-factor combo, though, considering how godlike the rest was.

117

From Deviljin’s posts and onwards, here’s a discussion about the Zero MU: X-23 Matchups Average

Ignore the argument after it lol. I’ll get out all the MU info tomorrow.

118

Anyone have any tips on fighting Felica with Strider’s Vajra assist? I don’t know what to do against delta kick and Strider limits some of my options. The thing I’m doing right now is CS H when Strider and Falica fly towards me, but I can’t really combo off of that. xD

119

Honestly, CS H’s probably one of the better options haha. Maaaaaaybe CS L’ll leave them lower to the ground so you can combo off it but it’s less active and probably more prone to lose to Felicia+Vajra. Or maybe CS H>air XF into a possible combo to take them both down. I’ll experiment in training mode to find more possible counters.

120

Aww, so sad that X-23 can’t do much. xD Usually when I do CS H, I do TA L afterwards. What happens is, Felicia will drop out in front of me from TA L, but Strider will fly up from CS H and avoid the TA L, so most of the time I wait a bit until he falls and then do a quick combo on him. It’s kinda risky though cause Felicia would have recovered and will try to punish me, haha. xP