Well, he probably feels that way because he plays with Pendulum, which I can agree in it being a heck of a lot better than DH. I don’t have any experiences getting the TAC stuff to work in a casual setting yet, that’s why Dorm is there. His DHC are arguably best for her, and he can still use RB for his shits and giggles. I like tagging X23 back in for free setups, but PC long ass animation doesn’t net enough time.
I want to understand the game more than simply relying on beam to save my ass. That was the problem with X23/Doom/Wesker. Both Doom and Wesker assist are generally stuffed into one character (Iron Man).
You don’t get in with RB, you either get in with smart mobility or another assist. You stay in with RB. The exact same argument can be made about Dark Hole, it’s not like it comes out far enough in front of you to be a threat unless you’ve already done most of the work but everyone talks about how great it is for her (which it is).
If you’re getting thrown out of wall jump, you’re being too predictable. Laura has so many different trajectories off of wall jump it’s ridiculous. I feel you on the whiff punishes though, but that’s our fault for whiffing in the first place. That’s either being too predictable again or doing it from a range where they can react to it.
On beam being the better assist, I would agree if we weren’t talking about X23.
RB - Great lockdown + wonky hitstring that still allows for left/rights, great coverage/durability for stopping projectiles/vajras/missiles, covers a huge portion of the screen while still allowing reliable conversions on hit, acts as a full damage extender for X23, great for incoming setups/guaranteed dirt naps, literally a one of a kind assist in marvel (and the only assist in the game that offers neutral/extend/ 100% dirt nap for X23.)
Beam - great hori assist, brainless conversions, leaves opponent standing (works with standing reset tech), can only extend on shitty combos(~50-60k extra damage).
If you just want a good beam character with reliable conversions and easy infinites, play doom. He’s a much better character (and better yet, play doom with missiles cause it’s a much better assist for X23.)
The only reason you should be playing IM is if you’re looking to abuse the infinite/double dirt nap game plan. He’s not a good enough character to warrant having just a neutral assist when there’s so many other options for beams that are attached to great characters. Especially when we’re talking about beam characters and synergy with Dormammu, EMD is so freaking amazing for Dorm because it bounces them perfectly for dorm’s teleport mixup combos and the MastaCJ incoming may as well be an unblockable.
Merkyl, you just made me cream my pants for Iron Man. Is he low tier? Yup. Is it fun as hell to kick some ass with the Laura/Tony connection? Oh hell yes. I’m trying to learn some RB uses though. Is there anywhere you know of that I can find or watch uses of the RB assist with our lovely X-23?
Check out that WandlesxxAsh(Me) set I posted over in the vid page. He’s been running X23/RB since week 1~2 vanilla so his RB insticts are really solid (wayyyy better than mine). Something you’ll have to realize really early on is how terrible the recovery is on RB. If you’re not right on his ass to protect him after he finishes RB it’s really easy to dash up and punish him (I’m not even joking, that shit is AWFUL.) Same with startup, the only time that you should be calling him on neutral is when they’re doing something stupid at SJ height or you have a solid blockstring (but always be prepared to snapback on their ass if they try to XF pop and HBD you.)
As far as tony being low tier…I’m not sure about that after playing with him for a while. He is def. a low tier magneto in rushdown and you’re dumb if you’re trying to play him like that (you can rushdown, but it’s still a weird 2~3 character length spacing/rushdown). If you’re doing it right and playing his spacing/zoning game, he actually counters a toooon of dumb shit. On point, RB alone protects almost every assist call (except against beam super punishes, which still lose to level 3 in most cases) and beats out Missiles, bad foot dives, Vajra, dumb teleporters, slower projectile spam (MoriDoom anyone?), bad rushdown, etc. You just have to be smart about it and do your best to never be closer than 2 character spaces. This is easy to do if you’re spacing properly since he has beam normals (I would call them sword normals if swords were better trollface.) He’ll almost always kill if he has 3 meters on stock but it’s really not a big thing to just reset to neutral for him as long as you have him backed with strong assists (read: great battery on point.) I don’t know if I’d call him top tier, but he’s def. not low tier. He’s stuck in a wierd limbo because he’s def. not a traditional derpy marvel character.
One thing I’ve been getting used to is using RB like a really good DP assist for people that are being too predictable. If they don’t know how to space out RB it’s really hard to them to do anything coming from the air and you’ll see Wandles get the last second dash under crossups on me all the time when you’re stuck blocking RB in the air (that shit’s too fast…)
The timing on calling it for mixup/lockdowns in the basic cr.MHxxMF L/MxxTA L(you get better pressure follow ups if you cancel into TA L so you’re not half screen away and free damage on hit)/H(if you learn the spacing on this you can do a crossup/uncrossup if you CS L over their head and crossup TA L back in the other direction. Works nice since it’s the first few startup hits on RB that are a janky broken blockstring) Anytime you don’t hit the mixup go hit them with a cr.L dash over dH and get the nearly free hit that way. If they try to up-back on you then go for late dash-under stuff or last second air throws. It’s ridiculous how low X23’s hitbox is on her dash so this will catch a lot of people off guard.
Decided to start playing a team with my two favorite girls Laura and Ms. Grey, anyone have any combos with Phoenix’s trap assist? I haven’t tested much but they bounce pretty high after being hit by it, I think.
Looking at using Hawk or Mags mid but I guess X will be playing for mixups and resets.
I believe Crescent Scythe should work against Vajra.
I need to look into Trap Assist combos for you, I know you could relaunch with the assist after an Ankle Slice back in Vanilla, but due to changes in assist hitstun scaling, X-23 might not be able to relaunch them during longer combos.
I’d put Magneto 2nd if you can do his TAC infinite and build 5 bars off one char for an instant Dark Phoenix. (assuming the opponent doesn’t pull off some anti-Phoenix strategy…)
Playing a team of X23/Dorm/Wesker Having a hard time getting the timing right for dark hole relaunch. Do you have to dash back? I’ve been following **Lintlikr1’s **channel and I’ve learned a lot about Dorm and Laura but not this.
Dashback and call assist straight into QCF+M. The timing’s a little tight but that usually works for me. ALSO, fun little tip, having them a bit above your body when inputting the Talon Attack L helps the timing. So, if you launch them at a standard height, MMH dH CS+H before the talon attack is good, and when launching them from a height way above your body to start with, H CS+H times just fine, in some circumstances the dH whiffs but at this point it doesn’t affect the ease of the Dark Hole relaunch. Otherwise, just look at their body, and you’ll be fine.
In case you didn’t know, dashing back with punches + calling assist at same time (so using 3 buttons) greatly helps for getting Dorm’s Dark Hole assist to hit.
I was able to ankle slice and relaunch when I was messing around, just wasn’t able to do much after it. I’ve been working on my Mags so I can practice his infinite, worried about dropping it, having him die, and being left with a solo X though haha. Team is just for fun so I’m cool with getting bodied.
Watching all these SCR matches and seeing Wolvie be so dominant makes me sad at how limited or at least underused Laura is. Wish they didn’t take away multi talons in the air, don’t understand the thought process behind nerfing her.
H talon had no hit stun decay. since she can combo of her dp now. you can down H right a way and do a L talon.
I play X-23 (dp assist), Chris (grenade assist) for relaunch since all my combos carry from wall to wall and Dante (Jam sessions). My friend play Nova. I usually try to stop the Dolphin kick with her jmp H and I buffer meduim dp so if I hit I can to a L talon get one rep of her loop before I launch.
On the vajra note, you can actually combo CS HxxTA L (and CS is completely reliable once you get used to the timing). As long as you don’t put yourself in a spot to be whiff punished it works great. If it’s not safe to TA L, with the right spacing you can combo TA M into falling j.HS or whatever you feel good about since it’s an assist and won’t air tech. If I’m in a safe place I’ll just land and do OTG+assist > whatever (jump loops or MFC strings against other rushdown, straight launch for characters with projectiles) against smart opponents I’ll try to bait a reversal super with OTG > RT or uncharged AS > WXP if I think I’ll need more i-frames. Also, against characters without a decent projectile, full jump loops are really hard to break and will combo if you catch their point off a bad save attempt. (Not to mention it’s pretty low risk since you can peel off at any point safely.)
On the note of catching assists, one of my favorite things in the world is to launch an assist, stall and wait until your opponent gets under you to do some kind of save, and then drop down with dH to catch them off guard and then stall with some more normals while you wait for the assist to drop back down into the HBD then go back into a regular combo. One of the most beautiful things in the game when you land it. Even when they block the dH, you can go into a pressure string that uses charged AS + assist to have pressure keeping the assist juggled and just be prepared to RT when they finally crack and try to super you off of them.
@Tronchalant: That team is incredibly low on life, so if you’re put in a spot where X23 gets hit > dies, incoming mixup doesn’t go well > Mags dies in one hit, I don’t think you’ll be anywhere near 5 bars so the runback is pretty much non-existent. Not to mention how prevalent morrigan is in the current meta-game and she is a direct counter to Jean and neither Mags nor X23 has the tools to beat her spam so chances of being able to deal with a lame team with that composition are terrible. If mags dies, X23 without a safe neutral assist will pretty much have to rely on XF2 to do any work but you have to save the meter and xf for Jean which means no dirt naps. Also, I don’t know if mags has any great reset assists for X23 so you’ll probably be stuck doing a lot of fishing with that team against characters that are comfortable blocking. I kind of feel like you have 1 too many gimmick characters on that team. 2 ladies that both love eating all the meter and XF are gonna have a hard time sharing a team, imo.
Tried using TK Trap for relaunches after longer combos…not happening unfortunately. Sends 'em way too high up, even for S>TK’d Crescent Scythe H. And yeah, what Merkly, but if you really, really wanna have Phoenix on your team, then yeah, probably X-23/Mags/Phoenix.
As for X-23 being under-used, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. It’s only a matter of time until one of the X-23 players on this board or someone else gets everything together, then people’ll see what she’s made of. While far from the best, I think X-23 will piss a lot of people off in the future lol.
IIRC, LintLikr showed that tech off TACs with down dash dark matter > Stalking flare > WXP > S > really short air combo. I haven’t seen jump loops, but it seems like scaling would murder that anyways.
The best you can get off it is if you dhc at the right time X23 will pass under them and hit from the other side then the flare will cary them over x23s head and you can just hit S… otherwise if X23 lands the super on the same side as the flare you will have to dash and hit S almost perfectly to get the launch… im pretty sure that you cant do jump loops after it due to hitstun scaling and that H wont land after the stalking flare runs out but you can alwasy do H shoryuken into H air talon strike for some added damage. I like doing 2 in a row: start x23 tac down into dorm, immediatly dash down and away and use a H dark hole on the ground DHC into WXP then if u can get the dash launch to connect do another Tac up or down into dorm then use dark matter the second time to set it up again impractical maybe sexy yeah buddy
impractical maybe sexy yeah buddy