www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQk_-vseL0M&feature=player_detailpage#t=188s
80% of Nuki’s gameplan in that clip is destroying Kens footsies by mashing down and also whiffing moves and then fish for parry. And then mixing it up with whiff and then normals and low forward. This is a example of where the parry system can take the competitive spirit out of the game. I still enjoy 3S but imo it’s definitely a diamond in the rough.
but you cant just mash parry…
To me this clip simply demonstrates how Chun is just straight up better then Ken when she has meter. The Ken (Kuroda) could of used uoh, although knowing Nuki, he’d probably be able to reaction parry it. Another option would be to whiff cr mp infront of him, hoping that he throws out a cr mk. You could then confirm to super. Neither option is brilliant, but in my opinion this clip primarily demonstrates the tier difference between Ken and Chun more then anything. If Nuki was doing the same thing with no meter he’d get obliterated since ken has virtually nothing to fear in that situation.
The clip doesn’t show how broken parrying is. It shows how broken Chun is. Fuck that bitch.
The clip demonstrates a player (Kuroda) trying to deal with a mechanic (parry) instead of mentally battling another player. And this is where I see faults in the parry system. Doesn’t matter if there’s a TIER difference, that is a mechanic fault with the game outside of tiers as it removes most of the mental competitiveness from the game.
Granted it’s a extreme case of the parry system failing. But it’s still quite possible to get blown up by a guess parry in any match up. If this was chess ( I’m going to use chess for reference as that seems to be the norm). You can’t just randomly move the queen somewhere on the board and have a 50/50 chance of destroying your opponent. In 3S this is possible though, I guess it’s not a bad mechanic per-se. But it’s not a good one either as there should be more methodology to earning good damage in higher tier play.
I disagree, if anything it means that the Ken player has to be far more agressive in the opening round and capitalize much more on any knockdown he achieves. Either way, whether you acknoledge it or not, there is a way around that situation as I have already explained. Why Kuroda didn’t use them I don’t know, but they exist.
The parry system, I liked. It made you think about your next move because if you did a wrong move, you’re open to a free hit if your move was parried. I was never good at parrying, even though I mastered the Daigo Parry and even parry an extent of Yun’s Genei Jin, but I still think it’s a good mechanic. Even if you’re able to parry every single move an opponent did, they would see through you and bait you into doing it.
Kuroda is notorious for being a super defensive player, including with Ken. He did the same thing against Tokido’s Chun in the semis of that same SBO; the difference is Tokido was out of practice and played a bit too impatiently. It unfortunately didn’t work out against Nuki though, who knows that matchup like the back of his hand and played the range game perfect. Kuroda needed to get in there but he played it too safe. Nuki baits like a pro, just like a lot of other top players and this isn’t exclusive to 3S.
I wouldn’t say that it “removes the mental competitiveness”, it’s just different.
I really love 3rd strike and actually really love parry, but parry is a game system strong enough to define a game. That is if you include parry into any other game it will just become 3rd strike.
The problem with it is its too strong as implemented, the null whiff window means that its an option that’s ‘always loaded’ and if landed effectively nulls normals. So in 3rd strike its possible to do things that really shouldn’t be done like jump in even if you know they have an AA loaded or walk directly into an opponents effective range - well not chun, but y’know…this obstensibly creates a tier list that has long to me been based around how effectively a char can avoid be parried as seen in yun/chun being top [genei is difficult and not neccesarily useful to parry, chun has excessively fast and far pokes and an excellent throw game] ken [all around] makoto/dudley/akuma [unparriable/strong 50/50s/being akuma] and urien[uh…] are all high->top chars.
The 2nd point which is a bit contentious is that it reduces/expands depending on your view strategy to a strictly macro level, what is he gonna throw now and is it mid/low and when. The what isn’t exactly important, there aren’t the street fighter default ‘problem moves’ that you need to do something specific to get around - parry “solves” all that.
No, thinking ahead has always been a key element to good Street Fighter play. What the parry does is add another option into the mix. In fact I’d say there are times when it gives you too many options. Jumps in 3S were no longer guesses as they had been in most other SF entries, which changes the nature of game enough to where it’s not quite Street Fighter but a close facsimile.
I never played 3rd Strike but from the videos I’ve watched, I like the parry system. However, if it ends up being added in a future SF game, then rekka characters would have a huge problem. I guess rekka characters wouldn’t be added in that game if that were true.
Jumps were by no means guesses. An obvious example would be someone doing a fireball so you reaction jump in and punish them. This will obviously also work with slower pokes too . Another example are safe jumps on someones wakeup, though not guaranteed damage, they provide you with a safe mixup. So I’d hardly call it a guess.
Tell that to Yang when he has you in the corner.
This is one argument a lot of people make against 3S, and to be fair it’s pretty true. Not everyone’s going to take those options available too well, and even interpret them as a hindrance to seeing the bigger picture(hence the whole “3S kills fundamentals” nonsense). It’s a “love it or leave it” type of deal, not much to say about that.
Personally, I love having those options. 
3rd Strike Yang begs to differ.
Oh that’s right I knew there was a rekka character in 3rd Strike. Wow early Alzheimers.
Actually, I was moreso pointing out the fact that Yang is really good in 3S. The risk reward ratio is usually in Yang’s favor when it comes to mixups, and all he needs is enough bar for EX to be scary. This is including parries as a factor.
Don’t make stupid arguments like this. You can make almost identical statements about every game, and all they ever do is provoke fans of the game, or get liked by a bunch of people who hate the game already.
In SF4 you can win by mashing jab and SRK
In ST you can win by spamming tiger shot
In CvS2 you can win by building meter and activating A groove
None of this shit is true but it sounds good to people already interested in deriding the game. I’ll admit parry weakens certain character archetypes like Vega(Claw). That doesn’t mean 3s devolves into 1 single tactic anymore than any other SF game does.
Your comparisons doesn’t even make any sense. Parry doesn’t even take quarter of a second and it has no recovery. It’s a split second 50/50 defence which can lead to massive damage and be incorporated into almost anything including option selects.
I’m not “deriding” the game. It’s a good game and the only fighting game I play regularly atm. But the thread is asking opinions on parrying, and that’s my opinion on it. It’s a double edge sword, good in some scenarios and assine in others. And If you want to abolish my views on the mechanic then at least have some good fodder instead of talking about SRKs and tiger shots and “deriding”, because all that doesn’t mean anything .
I won’t deny any of that but…
Really? The diction you used pretty specifically stated it wasn’t an opinion…
And that’s what I’m contesting. I don’t care whether or not you think parry is a good mechanic or not, but its really disingenuous to say all it takes to win in 3s is whiffing a move and pressing forward. You even went so far as to say its a fact (the opposite of an opinion). I think that tactic has worked for me maybe 2-3 times in the past month. Not exactly game breaking.
If you got gripes with parry at least post something a little more thought out than “derp, 3s is tap forward and down and you win.” That stuff is for FGD.
I acutally used the terminology “IMO” in this thread. But anyway I shouldn’t have to state something is my opinion in the first place. If you don’t put so much credentials into what other people state you wouldn’t need confirmation.
I’ve also posted videos of two of the best players in the world, one of them tapping down repeatedly to destroy the opponents footsies. What have you demonstrated that counters this argument? So far all I’ve seen is salty fanboy tears of someone who can’t take criticism to a video-game.
I already explained the counters, Kuroda just didn’t use them. In that particular situation he was in, you need to be abit more aggressive. Kuroda was not and so he lost. Had he gone Deshiken mode he might have stood a better chance.