Wait, can’t you just 5HP right after? It has a pretty tall/long hitbox for a standing move. It might not hit if your catching people right on the tip of your 5mk? I’ll try it out here some but definitely give it a shot, because 5HP follows up into just about everything. You can fully charge a pinion dash in there.
I think reaper being flight cancel-able is a neutral game buff, it’s risk/reward got massive increased so I know I’ll be using it as a tricky option a lot more.
The things I’m most worried about are the throw change and the assist change, I know what you are saying about your Pinon tech, but Painwheel can already force complete guess resets really stacked in your favor so I think it’s a loss of a single option when we retain another that does the same thing mostly.
#1 MISTER DIME, you do realize that the throw scaling applies to every character, right? So, even if you use it more than someone else, it’s a universal change and doesn’t actually affect her more than any other character.
#2 JUST MAYBE you will find out that you made a decent point before so not only is the original Pinion input still valid, but perhaps it now has different strengths possible as an assist. Or you’ll keep complaining and I’ll take all of that out. (^.^)
Yes, you may have to reset more…which she’s already good at.
shutting up.
@tomo: i agree with all that you said there, hadnt thought of on hit air lk buer being a neutral game buff, but now that you mention it… it certainly seems to be so, makes me happy as being annoyed by obvious jumps spaced just right to be hard to airthrow has a been a thorn in my side.
in the interest of shutting up i am deleting my previous post.
-dime
Haha, never take my ire seriously, I don’t change the game for the worse based on people being annoying. (^.^) Though all that stuff is indeed the new state of the Painwheel.
Air-to-air j.mp can be flight cancelled on the last hit and convert into re-stand combo. It’s helped me cover the air with neutral jumps and jump backs so far.
So, has anybody found a use for neutral game Pinion Dash? I want ideas for using it to close the distance; maybe cover with a projectile and go? Currently, I only use it as a combo ender so I don’t have to cancel into the low damage Buer Thresher. How safe is it on block, anyway?
Neutral game pinion hasnt yet found a use for me besides calling out pinion simultaneously with an assist call as a quicker run under to crossup the opponent with an assist, rather than her dash whos slow startup makes it harder to do run unders against basly spaced jumpins.
Are you as excited about the new pinion dash assists as i am? Man lvl. 3 assist that causes wall bounce towards ypu or lvl 2 assist that knocks the opponent away… Pinion already has alot priority… These assists might be damn ner broken… Only time will tell, but the startup time being significant may help to balance them… But a random lvl 3 hitting should probably always be a combo opportunity…
Ive also been experimenting with a trio consisting of pw/pea/double (pinion or medium fireball, st.hp, mk bomber) and im loving this team. Been using some cifferent tactics such as ending combos with lk buer for corner carry from anywhere on screen (cause corner plus bomber = dead opponent team… Everything works better, such as incoming mixups and mk bomber becomes unduckable… Im finding it better on a 3person team to fight for that position rather than going for resets midscreen since trio does less damage and post patch i ink corner carryy will be even more significant for pw cause of the scaling nerfs…
Anywho peacocks st.hp works amazingly wellwith double and painwheel as a lockdown with really good recoverythat can be. Alled again and again on block… It synergizes with double really well cause double owns the skies with j.hp and peas st.hp is a fireball that is unduckable allowing assist/bomber mixups if the opponent tries to anticipate and duck a bomber.
Really liking this team… Rhe pnly problem im having so far is the dhc synergy in the corner for pw to peacock as argus performs weird in the corner and most of the time even on hit, peacock is throwable after argus… Not good, but there is a work around in doing bomb then otging with pea into fullcombo…
Tis team is pretty damn amazing and when i get lvl 2 or 3 pinion it may just be ridiculous.
-edit
The ipad keyboard owns me… Sorry for all the typos
-dime
Definitely want to mess around with level 2/3 pinon assist. Could be very interesting.
Lvl 3 Pinion dash + Cannon/H Bang? Yes please. 
Gonna miss my AA Reaper though. 
Dont know where to post this and dont want to make a new thread… So itll just go here for now.
Incoming mixups arent something ive really studied with pw, but now that 3 character teams seem to be catchingr on more and more… There is more incentive to snap in a problem assist that makes 2 characters better… Like oh say snapping cerecopter in or double butt or filia gtfo… And theres always the snapping in of weaker characters that have taken alot of damage as an assist or that were tagged out somehow.
Anywho ive found a “bnb incoming mixup setup” that not only gives pw alot of different options, it also is easy to time cause the setup mostly does the timing for you:
Setup = (corner only)
Snap out, immediate neutral jump (just hold up, its auto timing after the snap) fly at apex or near apex of jump.
Thats the setup, here are some of the options painwheel has to kill her opponents blocking, remember these all come from the same exact setup so i will be posting these as if the setup has already been achieved.
- d/f + Airthrow
Very simple timing cause of the jump and fly taking up most of the available time, if done correctly the opponent will be grabbed meaty/near meaty. d/f cause pw blocks the incoming body better when she goes d/f than when she just goes forward, making the timng even easier. Parasoul,bella,double and peacock are the prime suspects for this since they are all forced afaik to mash tech or get blown up…
However… That brings us to option 2:
- B+mk xx double bomber or if unassisted a harder option is b+mk xx fly f+mk (easy restand) into full combo.
What happens is that the opponent will come out mashing tech and b+mk will stuff it since it moves backwards and out of range, then hornet bomber comes in and combos them for an easy to capitilize off otg, the hornet bomber version is stronger since if they block it still puts them in blockstun and if they pushblock… Hornet bomber still puts them in blockstun… Basically win/win kinda like wongs old wolvie incoming mixups where they have to block a jumping fierce then Get put in blockstun by akuma assist into even more mixups.
Ok so those 2 are the most basic and easy to apply, however pw has a MYRIAD of options from here, not only with the setup i just explained but with others such as not flying but instead just charging a hp to meaty them as they come in while calling an assist… Then mixing that up with charging the hp then flight canceling it and throwing them… Dirty, but unecessarily technical.
The setup i posted also has great ways to get behind the opponent and left / right them or to simply make them block a meaty j.mk…
Experiment with the setup i posted its easy, has lots of depth and crazy shit that can be added on just for shits and giggles.
Its weakness is that its corner only and will fail to air super mashers if caught unaware.
-dime
Has anyone tried the Painwheel pinion dash assists? Any real use for it?
So, I’m hearing that in the corner, HK Reaper is the new c.hp. How are her new reapers in general? Also, ideas on using LK Reaper for both the re-stand assist and AC counter into combo? How effective is LK Reaper as an assist?
c.HP xx HK Reaper is the new c.HP
Haven’t tried LK Reaper as an assist, it would only be good for restand resets. Could try it, but I think c.MP or Pinon would be more useful. As an AC counter it might be kind of useful, although it isn’t too fast.
c.mp will do the same basic thing of allowing for resets that lk reaper would but for less damage. Chances are you’re going to do a re-stand with whoever you use already so lk reaper forcing stand is not a huge deal. I would also say c.mp is a better AC because you can charge it, fly cancel it, and special cancel it. If you ac a lk reaper and it’s blocked you’re boned.
Other notes:
-Cerebella st.lk is a bitch
-lk reaper is a great OTG. since most likely you won’t start a chain with it, you can use it whenever in a combo and not worry about ips.
More quick stuff:
-Easy burst bait with jump back lk. Works on everyone except pw. Just make sure when you restand you are close enough. I tested it with throw, fly, uf+j.lp, j.lk (land) ub+j.lk. The burst will completely whiff without having to maneuver with flight. Just make sure you’re out of the burst before fling in.
Edit: Further testing proves this to be a little different across the board. For cerebella you need to pop ips with j.lp. Parasoul you have to nsj.lp, but you have to fly at the tip of the jump or else you’ll fall into the burst. For Valentine it wasn’t very reliable at all. After some practice it seems that the best way to ensure this happening is to fly as close as possible to them before they hit the ground.
- Instant overhead that only works on parasoul and perhaps other big crouchers, neutral jump+j.mk, then fly, df+j.mk. Worked most of the time from a launch->restand of st.mp, (sj) j.mp (4), j.hp (3), j.hk
Edit: This is stupid hard in an actual match lol.
I’m not sure if this is the right thread to post in, but I’ll go ahead and post here anyway.
I am in need of some serious help, because I’m on the edge of dropping this fucking character due to frustration and just not having fun with her anymore.
So I have to say, I wanted to use Painwheel because I’m the type of person who loves being in peoples faces and causing massive damage, that’s just who I am. So I decide to put her in a team with Fillia and at the time, it was a match made in heaven. I was beginning to discover new things with them and I was actually having fun when I fought other people. It was great, at the time at least…
This was about 2-3 months ago. Finally going against some of the better players in the community, I realized that the decent Painwheel that I have was actually total fucking shit compared to everyone else. I realized that against good players, getting in with Painwheel was actually more of a nightmare then I thought. Against characters like Parasoul, Valentine and Double, I get fucking raped in the ass because they seem to beat me to the punch whenever I try to get in. I watch other players do all these weird ass tricks and shit and I did my best to try and emulate them. This proved ineffective cause I was still getting destroyed by many amounts of people. Even with an assist like Fillia’s Updo (H), it still wasn’t helping and in the end, Painwheel would just repeatedly die and leave fillia to get completely raped by all the other female characters because I still don’t have a high damaging combo.
Another issue I have is combos. Nobody seems to put fucking notations in their videos, so whenever I try to learn a Painwheel combo, it’s a fucking nightmare trying to figure out each and every solitary step of the combo. I decided that for a start, I would try some basic flight combos, they do about 5000+ damage. It’s not bad, but for some reason when I play online, these combos don’t god damn work. I know how to do the combo, I don’t get nervous once I get a hit, but for some fucking reason, the combo drops repeatedly for some reason because after the c.HP or s.HP, the flight doesn’t activate and I end up wasting my time and possible getting punished. I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong, but it’s starting to god damn piss me off that I have no good combos to use with her, making her completely useless to me.
As time went on, I decided to think about it and maybe I need to add a character to my team, someone who could clear the horizontal plain. That’s when I decided to add double to my team and soon I joined the Bomber legion because now I would have 2 assist that cover both Vertical and Horizontal. Unfortunately, this didn’t fucking help as my PW still gets destroyed. Surprisingly, double seems to be my best character and I’ve only used her for about a day or 2.
The worst thing about this is that I just feel completely embarrassed and ashamed when I go against good Painwheels and they fucking stuff their damn razor blades up my damn ass. Literally at this point, I’m a mockery with PW and a total fraud in front of many different players of the character.
And I know this character is probably the hardest to learn out of most of the cast and It would probably take more practice to get decent with her. The thing is, I’m starting to get sick of it, I am getting sick and tired of getting buttfucked by every single player I face and looking like a complete dumbass in the process. “But getting your ass whooped is the best way to get better”, while this is true, it’s hard when I’m not fucking having fun.
One thing I have to note is that I don’t get upset when I lose, I get upset when I don’t put up a fight. When Painwheel gets killed and I didn’t do very much damage to my opponent, I get fucking pissed off and yell at myself for doing such a poor job.
It’s extremely sad because I really like carol, I loved her concept and I loved her gameplay style. I WANT to love her and love playing as her, but each day I play, I just get more and more aggravated when I look like a complete scrub. She is extremely frustrating to use and her learning curve is the most brutal I’ve ever seen…I just need help.
People have given me advice, but I just need to know here (Since this is the Painwheel thread and all).
Call this more of a rant if you want, but the point is, I need all the advice, tips and other useful shit I can because I am just starting to get sick and tired of this god damn character.
Also sometimes a visual representation helps in describing my problem. All the problems that I talked about (though this is before I started using double) are all in these videos.
[media=youtube]cx41mhew1rE[/media]
[media=youtube]Cfy7Aa9shec[/media]
[media=youtube]5WSrmhWHLO4[/media]
So for those who decided to sit through my woes, I guess thanks for taking the time. I just need all the help and advice I can get to try and improve on this character so I can start having fun with her again. Hell, even basic training mode tips and maybe what I should be doing first in it would help.
Anyway, that’s pretty much it.
First, you can come here for stuff like combos and resets instead of youtube, we have heaps on notation for that stuff here.
I responded to your post in the Media thread, but I’ll repeat that you have the general “look” of Painwheel’s game plan alright, it’s just you don’t ever seem to convert anything. You also don’t press your advantage when your opponent leaves a hole so they keep running over you.
The “flight not coming out” thing is just an executional thing, post patch you should be cancelling into an LK Buer when you are at the correct distance and flight cancelling that for your combos, but it’s all just muscle memory. You can check the combo thread here for a bunch of combo paths for Painwheel, in general they revolve around ground string xx Buer Reaper xx Flight x Air string loops though.
You were doing more resets in that FT10 set, but at the same time, your movement was much more predictable. Against Peacock, that is a huge problem because you are allowing her to run her game the way she wants. You need to be crafty to get around her gauntlet and make sure you are making it count when you do get in, because getting in on Peacock with Painwheel is never easy.
The main thing you need to do is tighten up your confirms.
EDIT: You also need to punish blatantly unsafe stuff so your opponents just run shop on you.
It’s extremely hard for me to get around peacock because there is so much going on, and I’m trying my best to react to those. It seems to be that with every character, I can’t do high damaging stuff cause I either having trouble remembering shit or I keep dropping it when I do get the chance.
At this point, I feel like I need to isolate myself from everyone and just practice in the training room for weeks because it seems like it’s going to take me forever to get even half decent.
The fact that double may now be your best character is telling. Also your first painwheel vid versus pali is quite telling as well:
- DO NOT feel bad about playing so badly against jugz… Hes one of the best sg players in the world.
- Watching that heavyjugz/pali match. Dont you notice how much hes beating you to the punch air to air? Dont you notice how much of his offense is predicated with j.lp plus hornet bomber?
You cant let him easily be in range for his j.lp, you REALLY dont want to be in range of his j.lp if you can afford not to. Tis means backing away if that is whats called for… Or attacking on the ground. OR:
Using something besides j.mp… J.mp is a ridiculously BAD move for air to air its SUPER SLOW. 22 frames of startup compared to trying to beat moves that are 8-15 frames of startup… Meaning that you would have to press your button 15 frames faster than the opponent pushed their button… I can tell you that in air to air wars… Even the difference of a frame or 2 can give the person with the faster move a significant win ratio against moves that are only 1 or 2 frames slower…
So stop using j.mp for now, simply stop using that damn move. Use j.lk, and j.hk instead. Both are much better air to air and j.hk is better as a jumpin as well (EASY crossup)
Since you jump with j.mp all day it will take some getting used to for you. J.hk and j.lk dont have as much range as j.mp. Persevere and you will appreciate the advice im giving to you though.
Still though painwheels jump attacks are really bad as far as air to air is concerned, so dont expect changing to the jump attacks that i said to make her as easy to play as spam jump hp with double (this is why your double is so effective isnt it? Spamming j.hp?)
In order to effectively use painwheel youve already made one right choice (painwheel NEEDS hornet bomber) the other choice to make is you need to simply back off and let the other characer wiff stuff, sometimes.
Then use bomber to to put them in blockstun and go to town.
Combos:
Either you ARE getting nervous when you hit(or surprised, though its the same thing) or its lag, or its the controller. Personally im with tomo, you look nervous/surprised… It isnt a bad thing necessarily… I still get surprised during hitconfirms and dont actually hitconfirm… Having played tomo, it happens to him on occasion as well… It isnt a putdown for this to be called out, just an observation.
Personally for you i would say to use this combo:
Cr.lk,cr.mp,st.hp xx lk buer flight d/f+ lp, st.mp, j.mp,j.hp,j.hk, (land) st.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx lp stinger.
Im known for using very simple combos and that combo is a simplification of my simple bnb.
If you would, i wnat you to try and use that. It only has 2 weird parts in it and it does ok damage and more importantly it uses my stinger reset.
Having a harder to drop combo that sets up really good resets os the entire purpose of a bnb.
If you want to read up on my stinger reset, im pretty sure ive written it up in the reset thread… But if not i just wrote something on it in the combo thread.
I reset almost everytime i do a combo… You should to. Mike z does it and most of the better players are coming around to using resets in that manner… It is the wave of the future… ESPECIALLY FOR PAINWHEEL since she could be considered a battery and probably has the best resets in the game.
… There was more but i forget for now, but that should be enough for you to start owning peeps or at least playing much better.
So to recap:
Use j.lk and j.hk instead of j.mp (also use airthrow… Its her fastest air move so should be used VERY LIBERALLY)
Stop using j.mp for now
Use doubles mk bomber as an assist
Drop cr.hp from your combos (use st.hp) and instead use a simpler combo (like the one i showed you)
USE THE STINGER RESET (it is the strongest low execution thing that painwheel has)
Bait during flight by being defensive… Painwheel doesnt have high priority moves to just rush her opponent down from neutral.
And last but not least, come here for advice and for tips and atuff and read here, not youtube. We have all been where you’re at and can help you through the transitional phases better than vids that dont explain themselves can.
Happy hunting