GGPO or not “100%” GGPO is kind of totally irrelevant here. Can they improve it further? Yes. End of story.
My understanding is that the netcode in ST/MvC2 is backbone netcode with some ggpo-based tweaks. Anything more specific than that is kind of random and you’d have to speak to one of the developers. Final Fight is supposedly the most faithful implementation of GGPO on consoles, but again: for that level of specifics, you kind of start needing to talk to actual devs.
Comments like “we can’t make a difference!” are puzzling and don’t really contribute anything positive. Let’s not get all meta.
as re: sprite filter: yeah, I can typically tell when people have it on. It lags their drawing, which desyncs them slightly and thus desyncs me slightly. MSP with sprite filters on is extra fun. =\
Yeah. GGPO or not we want something that is rollback and GGPO quality. THAT is certainly not impossible.
That’s actually a decent reason NOT to use smileys now that I think about it. If you use the SRK notation it will force them to learn it and will definitely help them communicate in the long run.
Sure we all want good netcode. that’s why I asked my friend about it last night.
Still, this late in the dev cycle, its too late to change either way. Beyond that, we’re being silly to assume we know more than they do. This isn’t a bargain title like MvC2 or underfunded like an SNK game. They know good netcode is key, and they’re throwing a ton of money at it, including the networking part. It’s a deeply complex subject, and the biggest thing that I got from last night was that none of us talking about it are remotely qualified to second-guess them on technical issues.
No, that’s not true. If there’s not time to make big changes, maybe there’s time for small. If there’s not time for small changes, what about the inevitable patch? If not in the patch, what about in MvC4? In no way should we arbitrarily assume that the discussion is closed.
I’d love for capcom to spend some time pondering the advertising possibilities if online tourneys were the accepted norm. Streaming advert opportunity would see such an increase in numbers with large scale tourneys every week.
You should always go out with a hooker joke, but it was suggested to me that these might be interesting to add to the discussion. I can’t support them as well as I could because htey’re all second-hand. (excerpted from IM’s, my babble removed)
Sorry that it’s a bit fragmented, but it seemed better to just quote all the comments directly rather than paraphrasing everything.
No offense to your friend, but its pretty apparent that he has no clue what he’s talking about in this matter. GGPO can just as easily work for MvC3 and wouldn’t take much effort at all to tweak it.
BTW, your friend knows that BB’s netcode is another version of GGPO right?
Yah, BB/MvC2 onrine is great. I kinda can’t imagine anything better.
I wonder what other features they may have in store that we aren’t thinking of. Something resembling IDs? States characters you like/use, a stage, motto, etc. I always was a fan of the small stuff. There’s also team rankings; I imagined when a VS game had robust online that you could sign up one specific team and gain points based on how well you do with that team, then others can find matches of you using them (filtered characters of course) and compare, and also see what team is dominating on a day by day (or week) update. No one team/person would stay at the top unless they fight their way there again. Kinda like SSF4 but maybe less shitty than BP, and would still not offer a look on skill level until you watch their matches.
chinn: Except XBOX and PS3 are never P2P to my understanding
Also, what he’s saying is in line with what capcom has said all along (as I remember it, they said specifically that ggpo wouldn’t work with SF4.) I mean I dunno if my friend is more knowledgable or Inkblot is (altho’ the general consensus on here is likely to be to inkblot because people actually know who he is :P)
But let me ask this. If capcom has has licensed GGPO before (so they’re willing to) and they’re not using it (which I, along with everyone else, tend to doubt they will be but, then again, we don’t really know), why wouldn’t they?
At least my version gives a possible reason as to why. They don’t intentionally make their game worse
Edit: It’d be hella funny if they were using GGPO based code from the start even tho it’d make both me and my guy look like retards. Worth it for the irony of us all begging them for something they’re already doing.
welcome to the mother fuckin club, member #123093882928392 but @ least you finally made it in.
I’m wondering the same thing. Why wouldn’t they make the net play good on purpose? and @ any rate, input delay is certainly NOT the preferred method but for some reason choose that instead?
Ok don’t use ggpo, but why not use an alternate rollback code instead? why the worse of the two on purpose?
from a ponder interivew
Most players cannot tell the difference between 0 and 2 frames of input latency. Those people would absolute prefer a much smoother online experience to having their moves come out a tiny fraction of a second sooner. Tournament players: put down your pitchforks! There are those of us who can detect as much as 1 frame of latency. Those of us who bought that specific Samsung flat-screen LCD rather than the cheaper Sony one because the Sony one added display-lag. Those players shoud be allowed to throttle down the frame-delay all the way to 0 to preserve the exact, offline timing they’ve spent 10-years of accumulated muscle memory perfecting. I’ve been using this system of 0-9 frames of fixed, configurable input delay for a while on GGPO and it’s been working great.
The bold part is pretty vital. Input lag doesn’t allow the players who can play offline the chance to use their offline timing while playing online. You have to give respect to the input lag and in ssf4, it feels like its 5-10 frames of input lag on a non green bar connection which is the USA average and in the most places the world as well like cananda, mexico, europe as they had a problem with it too.
Prior to making sf4, capcom pretty much understood the difference between input lag versus roll back and they went with the version that is totally incompatible with game for w\e reason AFTER already choosing the right one.
You’ve been proven wrong by a guy that actually worked with Microsoft in the department that dealt with this, and if you need help knowing who he is. He goes by the name of Preppy around here and is a good marvel player(might be an understatement).
Nah, sf4 was hogging up the ram to support rollback properly and/or supposedly. It still used p2p.
Read my previous statement.
They allowed Ono to design more then one game… he’s working on his fourth game I know of now:shake:.
Your already doing that. Cause people with that have working brain cells and bullshit detectors can tell.
for the record, I was dead serious on my last post. I was actually agreeing with you about the whole ggpo and sf4 thing. I’m as perplexed as you are as there is no seemingly good answer to why they wouldn’t use it other than for monetary reasons. As far as ggpo not working over xbl\psn, other games use rollback style netcode other than ggpo and they work fine over xbl\psn.
It literally makes NO sense as to why we have input delay instead of rollback.
The chief problem in mvc2 online in my opinion is the sprite / video pipeline causing wonkiness. Otherwise I agree it’s pretty excellent. But you get a wonky connection and are playing against Magnus Storm or other move cancelin’ pixie and it can get psychic. =\
Blaz Blue has been mentioned a couple of times as an example of good net code. Something that people often mention when talking about BB’s net play is that in Blaz Blue, in addition to it just having better net code, latency just matters less in BB because it’s much less strict in what it requires of you in terms of execution, particularly in just having way fewer one frame links than SSFIV. (Is there any game that has more than SFIV?)
I have no idea if this is true but it’s something I often see mentioned. I.e. the idea that in addition to good net code there are game design considerations that effect how games play online. I thought it was worth bringing up for discussion at least.
Edit - Seems like it shouldn’t matter how strict the execution is in BB. If it’s using Roll Back net-code then you’re never going to miss a link because of input delay since there is always none.
Edit, Edit - Although I suppose on the opposit end of the same subject it’s possible that SFIV’s troubles with input delay are compounded by it’s game design emphasis on very precise timing of inputs.
