Anyone can willingly trade with him and win out on damage. Im not sure but isnt his StunMeter like 60 or 70. One of the 2 lower numbers.
Kyosuke = No real good AA. Thats it. Aside from taking damage easily and not dealing much either, without an AA you can just rush him all day and he can’t do anything. Just stay on top of him and when you compare your damage output to his when comparing basic attacks in a tight situation like that for him, everyone else is better.
Okay, wait. Kyosuke deals shitty damage, takes damage like a girl, has shitty combos, horrible supers, and CANNOT GUARD BREAK. Plus, that shit where you say his LP cookie cutter bullshit can trap a P or K-groover is dumb. I’m assuming you’ve never played a decent P or K player. He can’t guard break because he has no decent pressure strings, except crouching jab x3. His anti-airs aren’t that bad, ducking fierce and standing forward are pretty good actually. The problem is that the timing on those is like Guile’s fierce and strong, it’s tricky until you get used to which one to use in every situation. Rival Schools super is tight, though hard to hit consistently. So yeah, he’s fun to mess around with, but HE IS NOT TOP TIER.
well, i consider myself a DECENT K-groover, and i’ve played against a c-kyosuke player. he does a pretty annoying string when he gets me to the corner.
it went something like this.
c.jab, c.jab, s.fierce xx fireballs, c.strong xx fireballs, s.fierce xx overhead punch. or something like that.
it was pretty annoying to jd. of course i didn’t take a lot of damage so i still killed him. still pretty annoying though.
whoa whoa whoa…ok I dont kno what a good P grovoe player can do…but can decent one parry xx red impact or super blanka ball? and im talkin about prdictable pokes or jump ins either…
altho there arent many K players there are a bunch of annoying RC guiles and annotyin A groove bison n sakura.
but I could agree with him not being top tier…but the way Im getting it is that a top tier has to do alot of dmg and have strong defence?
Kyosuke is not only NOT top tier, he is considered by most to be the worst in the game…
To be top tier, he should have some sort of inherent advantage over every other character, so that if two people of similar skills play, the higher tier character will nearly always win out. Kyosuke doesn’t have this at all.
It could be just because not many people have seen Kyosuke play, but more likely, its that he doesn’t have any tools to keep people out, nor does he have any tools to keep rushdown on somebody. Sure, his air chain combos are fun, but that hardly makes him a good character on his own.
Now, if you want to prove us otherwise, post up some sort of nice kyosuke footage (not talking combo vids on training dummy, or match vids against the computer. Tape yourself dominating with Kyosuke in some real matches) or just bring it to Evo and show us otherwise : )
Oh, random sidenote brought about by low tier talk… Todo vs K grove pisses the hell out of me. Claw, claw, clawn, if I get in close, command throw/rc claw/activate Command throw cc (in a groove) sure seems to dominate most of my K groove characters.
i agree todo is a bitch to kgroove, but i give him more credit than low tier.
I swear Joe has the best rc hands. Too bad no one plays him much.
Yeah Kyosuke is pretty shitty. If you know how to RC it makes him a little better. His normals are crappy, but his specials are good. cr lp x 3 is his only practicle combo :xeye:. Fireball traps are cool. I think his grooves from best to worst would be N/C/A/P/K/S. I for sure don’t think he’s the worst character in the game. Dan is the worst.
Dan isn’t the worst.
eh, imo dan is the worst.
i think buktooth’s orignal lowest rank went like:
#1N-king
A-hoah
K-ryo
C-kyosuke
K-raiden
A-dan.
so i started experimenting with some of these characters.
imma ignore A-hoah, ryo, raiden since i believe most of you guys would agree that they are better than dan.(if not, i’ll still discuss it).
but more importantly, kyosuke/king/dan. i’ve been playing all 3 of them in A-groove, and here’s some things i found.
-They all have guaranteed activation in the corner. Kyosuke has a mid screen one
-in terms of poking, kyosuke does the best due to his s.fierce/c.fwd.
-in terms of non-rc anti air. it goes to king with her surprise rose and c.fierce. and kyosuke next with his c.fierce xx air fireball string. dan’s c.fierce and dp sucks. dan HAS to rely no RC for anti air.
-dan’s only hope is his runaway game. so what does he do when he gets full bar? try to land his custom via antiair, or guaranteed corner CC, or something stupid like roll/dash activate and hope they don’t block.
and these are usually the results i get when i play these 3 top tier characters.
kyosuke - does ANNOYING well against K-groovers, since they always try to jd the fireballs, c.fierces, corner string, etc. sure they get bar, but kyosuke has enough tools to keep someone from getting in easily. and with kyosuke, constantly doing blcokstrings or getting random lucky hits, he builds bar pretty fast. he has pretty easy ways to land his CC too. rc elec DP thing, combo into dp, activate. (which is the same thing as the corner activate).
results: often times he’ll take down my opponent’s first character to 10% life, or leave my opponent with 30-50% life with full bar before dying.
king - it took me a while to figure out that c.shortx3 xx tornado kick(short version) combos :/. short tornado kick leaves her at -2 if blocked, so it’s relatively safe to just spam that combo. anyways, having one of the best rolls in the game, i find it handy to random roll and throw them into the corner, in which i’ll ATTEMPT to land a guaranteed cc off a low short combo, or RC qcb+p(in case they are mashing buttons). she can build bar decently fast as long as she keeps putting pressure on(i.e. just throwing out normals that puts them in block stun at the least)
results: with A-king, i actually can take out some people’s first character since her CC does 6-7k worth of damage. and because i only go for her guaranteed corner cc, the worst case scenario is that i bring them down to 40-60% life with full bar before dying.
Dan:
so i do the annoying lame runaway tactic with dan(i have pissed off many people with this tactic in the process). his pokes are shit poor, and his runaway tactic takes FOREVER to build bar. he needs to do some strings to get bar. but since he gets his ass handed to him when he gets close, he’s at a much farther disadvantage than the other two. if i get lucky, i can do a crossup j.fwd, c.jab, c.jab, s.short, s.fwd(walk forward a little) to build some bar or get lucky damageless hits in. i NEVER get his corner CC, his rc gale kicks are just too retarded for anyone to fall for. and you can’t combo into it anyways. my only hope is either doing roll/activate, dash/activate or hope they jump at me at the RIGHT angle.
results: at best i can take them down to 30-50% life without bar(cuz i usually try to burn bar when i get a chance and fuck it up). but what usually happens is that i WASTE the whole round by running away and nOT doing damage and NOT landing the CC, so i leave them with 60-90% health and i get full or near full bar before he dies. my best results with DAN is getting laughter from the crowd when i do his ‘air qcb+k xN’ custom
EDIT:
i forgot a couple thoughts. sometimes, i get pretty lucky and people fall for jab, jab, dash throw with dan. that helps a lot for dan since he’ll be aBLE TO DO DAMAGE!!!
imo, i think A-dan being best of the low tiers, is equivalent to c/a-mai being best of the high tiers(or upper mid to some people) . in theory they can just runaway all day when they have the lead, and build bar for the next character. but it doesn’t always work as plan does it?
You forget Dan can build meter fast by tigerkneed qcb+lk, and his DP CC’s take off alot. Kyosuke can do 9k combos in C-groove, the shit looks crazy too, but Buktooth is the only one I’ve seen with the timing to do it. I always fuck up at the air combos.
oh yeah, i use the tked qcb+lk too, it’s good.
i can see why dan shouldn’t be the worst, but in an actual match, it’s a lot easier to pull shit off with kyosuke and king. it’s kind of like how N-blanka is in theory the best blanka, but in a real match, it’s all about A-blanka anyways. some shit just aren’t as effective as they seem.
I’ll agree with that, lol.
A-Dan isn’t the worst by far. Just the simple fact that he has a 7K range AA CC makes him better than Kyosuke. His ground game (RC fb, c.fwd, s.fwd) isn’t great, but it’s not horrible. He has a guaranteed CC in the corner, tigerknee meter buildup that keeps him AWAY, one of the best runaways in the game, and his air gale kicks are great (+7 for short, even for forward when blocked). You have to learn to 270 the air gale kick to use it effectively, which takes time, but when you do, it’s worth it. He is by no means top tier, but he’s definitely high-low or even low-mid (depending on how big you want to make the tiers). At the very least, he makes a good battery.
the 270 air gale is interesting, i’ll try it out and see how my opinion changes. i’m having hard times landing dan’s CC though, where as i seem to be able land kyosuke’s cc more often(the ~5.5k one). this is one of the reasons why i put kyosuke slightly higher. just the fact that i can land the cc more(5.5k is still decent damage, it’s better than not getting the CC at all). but eh…i guess if i find a way to land dan’s cc more often i’d probably put dan higher…
anyways…
here’s what really bugs me about dan.
i can’t seem to do much damage to my opponent outside of landing the CC or random dash/throws.
sure he’ll build bar for my next character, but that means,MOST of the time, my next character will have to take on 50-100% life of their first character .
also, does dan really need to RC dp as his AA? or can his runaway suffice enough to keep them from jumping in on dan?
No, just hope for an invincible dp.
Dan can be quite frustrating, for sure. I don’t think he’s the worst in the game, but he can be annoying. I would rank Dan mid-low tier for actual effectiveness, but high tier for mind games (I mean… honestly, who the fuck likes to lose to Dan?!)
GG 
Dan was put up higher than Kyosuke i think.
I think he was better than the majority of the worst 8.
He has a good bnb (c. lp, c. lp, fireball) and has one of hte fastest released fireballs in the game.
besides he has a good cross up in j. mk and can build meter well.
He has good normals like the shotos and although there are certain differences (his standing fierce is said to be good.
Don’t take my word for it though but dan isn’t that bad, he reminds me of sean since he has a bad dp but you can rc that and he has a good fire ball that’s good in footsies i hear.
Yea he can run away really well with gale kicks fromw hat i can tell and he seems to be one of the best low tier characters.
and King was considered the worst character in the game by buktooth’s list.