how does a wave or c.mk get him in?Your kidding rite?Both those moves are horrible, c.mk is slow short and low priority".Wave sucks, and dash is too risky.Nobody dashes to “get in”, it’s a tool to cover groung.
Todo gets in by making his opponent come to him. RC Waves make him capable on the ground. An opponent will usually try to jump over and attack. You have just gotten into the range that Todo wants you at. If you get hit by waves in the air, that’s a knockdown. Dash up and it’s his wake up game at work. Also, Todo can’t do much against a far jump in - but what he can do puts him into range for those grabs too. He’ll either wave, which is a knockdown, or jump at you with an air-to-air short. You’ll both land next to each other, which makes it a guessing game… is Todo going to tick into a grab? Or will he do an RC grab right away? Todo doesn’t really have to get in… he has waves to play waiting games - even if he’s not doing damage with them, he’s not losing damage either… and they cause the opponent to make a choice about how to attack. Usually the opponent will try to get over the waves and take advantage of Todo’s poor anti-airs, but in the process he’s putting himself in the range where Todo can do the most damage.
so who wins. guile or todo?
they both can play the waiting game.
Waves are multi-hit…I would think good todo players could wave right through a RC sonic boom and hit him…
Possibly baiting anti-airs by using air waves, punishing when you land…
I think you’d just have to use the waves strategically. Guile is very capable of beasting…but I think a good Todo could win.
I wouldn’t know, though, I don’t use either.
vs roll grooves though waves are just roll bait, guiles booms are safe.Guile will get a hit from a slow boom and guile might take chip from wave.You can’t jump vs guile(unless the obvious) so it’s like watchin ricky play, you just get poked to death, and thats what I’m sayin most of todos matches will look like.The problem with his jump is that it is so telegraphed and really hard to crossup, pairing that with horrible jump ins, and no air defense(A-groove)its a huge gamble, and playing like that is inconsistant at best
So VDO is actually coming back? And why is this the cheesemaster state?
fuck that, whats he gonna do s.strong you? thatll be okay, youll get the damage back later. you can’t always roll on waves either.
but the reason i posted is i was just thinking, looking at the mvc2 forum titles something along the lines of “can guile be good” or something, and the reason josh’s guile is good in mvc2 is because he knows when to press the buttons. he’s very experienced, has a good sense for the game and is very good at knowing when the opponent is going to try and do “something” (this is basically what i equate ume too, although josh is no ume). anyway, i say this to say, that if you give someone like josh a mediocre character (mvc2 guile / cvs2) that happens to have some really good buttons, its a pretty safe bet that he’ll make up the difference. thats pretty much his point.
few things about todo.
-his antiair(downfierce) is not bad at all. it was consistently beating my haohmaru’s jumping fierce
-his low mk does have priority. it also gives really long stun.
-you can also set up todo’s 50/50 from a jumpin. as long as you know when to kick in the air so that when you land they’ll have to guess then its pretty much the same guessing game. i only know cuz with honda after i alpha counter i dash then jumpover and crossup j.mk anticipate when block stun is over then press down RH or RC grab. i’m sure the same thing could work for Todo. but i havent tried it out. of course todo’s down RH and RC grab take a little longer to come out so you might have to jump in with
thats about all i’d be able to tell you since i dont use him. but seems like people say his low mk and downfierce are bad but when i play against him that shit comes through.
P.S. sigley did you record it? it better not be with ken or something.
OK…yes guile will s.Strong or c.Fp or RC-SB all day = no jumping, but I guess you’ll jus get the damage later(whatever the hell that means).Beating Hao jumping fierce late is no acomplishment.The only jump - ins that todo can use are really early ones, and in that case you have to break a throw and risk more, and on an even shittier side it takes only one parry to go through a wave…ohh ya!
I think the best character no-one uses is…P-Sak!
nah i wish, it was actually the bison CC and i got a decent amount of hits (somewhere in the 60’s)
i never practiced it, i just one day randomly tried it and it worked and i’m like omg i’m the best
haven’t gotten it once since tho =(
i hit every combo/glitch there ever was the first time i try it, and usually the first time i try doing it after i wake up…but then i don’t get it again all day at least.
…its like i have real life super meters…
nobody else i’ve tried can antiair haohmaru’s jumping fierce with a normal move so it is an accomplishment. but whatever you wouldnt know anything anyways.
hey sigley do SHOSHOSHO next!
I think Ryu and Akuma can anti air it with st RH cleanly too. Nevertheless… Ryu sucks and Akuma dies to 2 FPs by Haohmaru… so they aren’t really of much concern to Haohmaru.
Can someone explain to me, why I can do Sakura CC, Bison CC, and even Iori’s GB CC but not wavedash in Tekken? It is the same damn motion isn’t it.
Just a thought… what made yamazaki drop so low? People used to think he was top tier. Same deal w/ balrog… what happened to him? I’m thinking he lost alot of steam when Roll Canceling became more common.
balrog dropped cuz people stopped spamming c. fierces with sagat and spams on standing lk instead, which he has trouble against.
sitting on a level 3 and unleashing it when u see an opening isnt as good as it used to be. being a charge character and all, its hard for him to get in and land his combo into super. balrog will get outzoned. his dashing straight are only good against tall characters and arent even comboable. his dashing low leaves him open for an attack (frame disadvantage). and his longest poke doesnt work against small characters.
i think yamazaki is still really good. viscant swears by this character and hes right for the most part.
hes still ranked high, i’d rank him higher than chun, but thats just me. but hes dropped for a few reasons.
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since his anti airs are spotty, he has major trouble against sagat and sakura (2 most dominant characters in the game). he doesnt have a real solution against sagats jumping rh and standing lps.
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no real way to combo into his super. again, sitting on a level 3 and landing it when you see an opening doesnt work as good as it did back in the days. the game is much more conservative nowadays. roll super can get you so far and many people has found ways around it by now.
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due to roll cancelling, hes not as dominant in the ground as he used to be. still he fights RCs pretty well. he has a fast roll, a great alpha counter a grab super (pretty good vs rc electricity, saks rc hurricane, iori’s rekka) and a counter move (hcf+k).
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finally, he has some trouble against runaway characters like vega, rolento, mai, etc.
Eagle
Pros:
-three frame j.MK
-tricky cross-up properties on j.HK
-three frame, +7 d.LP (same as shotos, makes for very easy links)
-three frame, +5 d.LK (easy links)
-punch throw, cannot be safe falled or delayed getup
-no seperate “skid” animation when coming out of a run
-meaty close s.HK has potential +10
-safe level 3 spin super
Cons:
-Poor far anti-air defense. Must rely on risky auto-guard LP or MP moves.
-Poor cross-up defense. d.HP and close s.HP tend to whiff completely unless you wait for Eagle to completely turn around during the cross-up.
-Level 3 rush super will WHIFF it’s last couple hits when canceled from a max range d.MK. d.LK, d.LP, d.MK xx level 3 super… last hits whiff?!
-Vulnerable to rolls on the ground when fighting with far s.HP and d.HK.
Eagle’s most dangerous setup is his punch throw. As mentioned above already, it cannot be safe falled or delayed getup against. The opponent is basically forced to take a guess at what offensive option Eagle is going to try.
Eagle has no seperate skidding animation on his run for some reason IN ADDITION to having the fast, +7 shoto jabs. Running jabs, random run, stop, throw can catch a lot of people off guard.
Punch throw…
-punch throw again (Eagle is at the perfect range to keep doing these indefinately)
-d.LK link combo (will cleanly counter opponent who tries to throw or tech hit on his get up)
-jump back MK instant overhead
Pretty much a forced three-way guess whenever Eagle lands his punch throw and wants to attack from the front. Throw, go low/counter hit, or go overhead.
-walk up, meaty close s.HK
You can link a d.MK xx super after that, but make sure to use level 2 if you have it because the last hits of a level 3 will inexplicably whiff. Meaty close s.HK, d.MP is also a solid three hit combo/guard crush that pushes the opponent back.
Punch throw, low jump over opponent…
-punch throw again
-d.LK link combo
-jump back MK instant overhead
The same three mixup options as if you had stayed in the front. I don’t think you have time to get a perfectly meaty close s.HK off though.
Meaty d.MK is always an option as well. As is just blocking in case you think the opponent is going to wake up with an invincible reversal.
You can also be gay and do low jump forward immediate j.HK, land, level 3 spin super.
If I had to play Eagle, I would probably play him in K-groove. Running lets him follow up after his knock down sweeps better, JD covers up the holes in his ground based anti-air defense, and his low jump attacks are good.
Top tier though? Not even close. Eagle may be nasty with his punch throw mixups, but how is he suppose to get close to get his punch throws in the first place? His poor anti-air defense is way too glaring as well. He may have high priority jump-ins, so jumping all day versus scrubs is a good strategy to let you win quick, however against good players who Tiger Uppercut instead of getting scared and block all day, I don’t think so.
What can you combo off of crouching short with eagle?? The only thing I think combos is crouching short into spinning lariat thing, but i’m not the best at combos.
also, does anyone know reliable combos for vega’s super? when i do crouching short, standing jab, punch super half the time standing jab whiffs =(
Eagle’s crouching short links into his crouching jab. It’s the same timing as linking two Sagat low shorts.
Stick with Vega s.LP xx super. The whole point of doing that combo in the first place is to catch your opponent standing up. You play K-Vega, so keep doing the cheap low jump attacks then randomly do empty low jump, d.LK, s.LP, s.LP xx super. The punch super only hits a lot of characters when they’re standing anyway.
Use standing short for that Vega combo instead of jab. S.lk hits mid.
Crouching height chart from buk’s guide:
79 - Raiden
78 - Geese, Chang
77 - Zangief, Sagat
72 - Eagle
71 - Rugal, Yamazaki, Benimaru
70 - E.Honda
69 - Dhalsim, Terry
68 - Kyo, Joe
67 - Guile, Balrog
66 - Blanka, M.Bison, Kyosuke, Todo
65 - Ryo
64 - Ryu, Ken, Akuma, King, Dan, Rolento, Haohmaru
63 - Vega, Cammy
62 - Morrigan, Yun
61 - Chun Li, Sakura, Mai, Kim, Vice, Yuri, Nakoruru, Rock, Hibiki
60 - Maki, Iori, Athena
- s.LP is 77 pixels so it’s only guaranteed on sagat and taller
- punch super is 67 pixels so it’s only guaranteed on guile and taller
so, for guile-sized and taller characters, always do c.LK, s.LK xx super. for blanka-sized and shorter characters, do c.LK, s.LP xx super, so if the jab lands the super is guaranteed.