The Official Street Fighter X Tekken Tier List Discussion

Hey guys, I think it’s about time that we got a tier list discussion going. The aim of this thread is to try and analyze where characters deserved to be placed.

I’ll start off with the Street Fighter cast first.

In regards to the C tiers:

I don’t truly believe that they’re bad characters. It’s just in comparison to the A’s and B’s, I have very little experience against them. I encourage people to disagree with my list and challenge my decisions. That’s the only way we’ll make progress.

I will do this myself (in regards to my own characters), in due course. But if you could break down what makes your character strong and why they deserve to be placed high/low, that would be of great help.

Street Fighter Cast:

A: Cody, Ryu, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Zangief, Rufus, Rolento

B: Ken, Sagat, Vega, Juri, Guile, Poison, Cammy, Guile, Dictator (M.Bison), Akuma, Ibuki

C: Sakura, Guy, Blanka, Elena, Dudley, Hugo, Abel, Balrog

Tekken Cast:

A: Kazuya, Heihachi, Jin, JACK X

B: Raven, Law, Lili, Julia, Nina, Hwoarang, Kuma, Steve, Xiaoyu, Lars, Alisa, Bryan

C: Bob, Paul, Asuka, Lei, Christie, Yoshimitsu, Marduk, King, Ogre

This discussion again?! Don’t we already have a discussion somewhere then it got buried for some reason?

Please don’t murder me, I just want us to be like the other forums. :stuck_out_tongue:

Honestly, perhaps it passed me, but I don’t ever recall being in a tier list discussion.

Does that mean it’s being closed?

I might’ve remembered it wrong.

These are my current tiers for the entire cast. Few wildcards left in middle tier.

Why do you rate Bob so highly? I’ve never played a good one before.

Seeing as we already have a character tier discussion, how about we shift gears to team tier discussion? :stuck_out_tongue:

I like that idea, because you already know someone is gonna lock/direct this topic to the cluttered up balance discussion topic, if we utter the word “tier” in here.

How about blacklisting people we see online so everyone can avoid…oh right we can’t :frowning:

Just out of curiosity, is it forbidden to have a tier list discussion?

On this forum it pretty much is, for whatever reasons unknown. Honestly I think tier discussion helps to improve match-up knowledge and overall knowledge of the roster as a whole. I’m all for it but the mods have been on a rampage since the game’s release if you talk about tiers outside of the Balance Discussion thread. I however don’t really care to talk about it in that thread since it doesn’t clearly state in the title that it is a tier disussion thread. When I think Balance discussion I think talking about things that need to be fixed or changed to improve overall balance, not a tier list.

Sorry, but that’s entirely silly. A balance discussion (as you know) and a tier list discussion are two different things entirely. Look at the SF4 forum. They have a tier list discussion, which is now complete. And then a balance discussion.

But Songi, you can help. Am I right to place Xiaoyu so high? I honestly think she’s one of the scariest characters in the game. With a true high/low game that can be devastating.

Xiaoyu isn’t really great at all. But going from your ranking system thats about where she should be. If the tiers were a bit more specific she’d be lower. She has terrible low normals starting off. Cr. :lk: and :mk: are both 6f startup with terrible range. Also most of her frame data on her normals are extremely slow. Her best pokes are st. :mp:and st.:mk: with each having 10f and 14f startup respectively. That’s extremely long for mediums and that hurts her neutral game bigtime. No safe boost chains to rely on with her and no Tekken chains either so she basically has to fish out hit confirms with her medium normals or overhead to get things started.

Her backdash, while it covers a lot of range, doesn’t allow her to get out of wake-up pressure freely like Kazuya’s or Chun-li’s. She has no reversal options either so once she’s knocked down she has to commit to the guessing game. Xiaoyu’s anti-air cr. :hk: is very risky and has such a small hitbox that it often trades or outright loses to deep j. :hk: from a large portion of the roster. On trade she rarely will be able to get a full combo from it so she’s only gaining 90 damage while the opponent is gaining 100. Low life also makes her taking the risk to AA, not worth it against a more intelligent opponent because if they cause her to whiff/trade/lose on AA she can potentially lose 50% life. Her ability to space herself out properly to AA is a a huge problem considering her AA is supposed to be a strong part of her overall gameplan.

Now the good stuff. She has a decent set of close range normals like st. :lp: and st. :lk: or even cl./cr. :hp: to create frame traps. With good execution she is able to do things that would be otherwise considered the impossible according to frame data with her stance cancels. Her Ex Turn of Fortune has 50 frames of armor from startup and only loses to multi hit DP or fast boost chains. Her damage is probably the best on the roster from an overhead and her ability to raw tag from a cr. :hk: ender makes her that much better as a team player. Phoenix Talon makes opponents launch high and keeps them airborne for quite some time making switch cancel combos very damaging and effective overall. Phoenix Talon is also relatively safe on block if the opponent is standing or just large like Hugo. She is still able to get over 320 damage meterless from a successful AA and a raw tag if she wants.

Overall Xiaoyu is mid-tier at best but she’s very dangerous in the right hands. I can’t really call her great because so many characters can do what she does and do it better.

I thought balance discussion and tier list discussion were the same thing, but whatever. Here’s what I currently think the tiers are like:

S: Hwoarang, Cody, Julia, Chun-Li, Zangief, Jack-X, Kazuya, Nina
A: Dhalsim, Heihachi, Sagat, Jin, Lili, Ryu, Rufus, Rolento, Ibuki
B: Alisa, Akuma, Guile, Dudley, Lars, Juri, Xiaoyu, Vega, Guy, Law
C: Raven, Bryan, Christie, Ken, Marduk, Ogre, Cammy, Steve, M Bison
D: Poison, Abel, Sakura, Bob, Kuma, Asuka
E: Yoshimitsu, Elena, Balrog, Hugo, Lei
F: King, Blanka, Paul

I never realized that she had such glaring weaknesses. I guess that’s because I’ve never used her. I’ve only faced people who made her look better than she actually is. In your opinion, how do you rate her match ups against the Street Fighter cast?

coughs.:lp: cough

Most of the SF cast has her beat 6/4 or even 7/3 a lot of the times. Guile is really one of the only match-ups I can safely say Xiaoyu can win without much of a problem on SF side. SF characters have some really long normals, some even halfscreen that keep her literally at the range where she doesn’t want to be. With Meter Xiaoyu can win these fights but they’re uphill always if Xiaoyu has to start at neutral. I run her on point so I can really go in depth if you need. Starting neutral is something I’m not a stranger to.

7/3s, wow…who are those characters? And why does she beat Guile? And a final question, how does she do against Shotos?

I know that one of those characters is Akuma but in all honesty, I haven’t really cracked the Xiaoyu/Akuma match-up yet. I think the only thing alluding me in that match-up is dealing with her overhead. It really does scare me into sticking normals out whilst pressuring her plus it’s made worse by the fact that Songi runs power gems on Xiaoyu.

I think that It’s something to do with the idea of his frame data being really good i.e. being locked down with st.:lp: pressure is somewhere she doesn’t want to be. Plus the idea of smart zoning preventing her from making an approach and the idea of being out-poked easily because of her slow mediums vs Akuma’s fast mediums at neutral range.

That said, on your SF Characters’ list, where would you place Balrog on that list of yours?

7/3 matchups: Chun-Li, Akuma, Cammy, Gief, Sagat, Vega, Bison, Rolento
6/4 matchups: Ryu, Ken (probably harder to deal with than Ryu), Rufus

She beats Guile because he doesn’t really have much more than Sonic Booms at long range and his normals aren’t really much of a threat to her since she can easily backdash out of them. At long range she can reflect booms back and AA his jump attempts very easily. His jumping attacks are probably the easiest in game to catch with her Cr. :hk:. Also if Guile decides to throw a Sonic Boom when Xiaoyu has meter she can easily take off half health if she reads right. His Flash Kick on wakeup is not a smart option for him either since it doesn’t auto correct and she can easily blow throw it with Ex Turn of Fortune for a free full combo punish on him or his partner. Guile cannot afford to play a lame game vs Xiaoyu because of his low health and her ability to punish any special he does for huge damage.

Shotos give her problems because of their cr. mp, cr. mk and cr. hk being unpunishable. Also they can easily neutral jump mk to harass her at mid/close range to keep her out. Their ability to change their jump arc with Air Tatsu makes it almost impossible to AA them because of how it shifts their hurtbox upwards. Ken for example has a safe multi hit DP that cannot be stopped with anything that Xiaoyu has on wake-up so she has to stay away from him or risk allowing him to safely tag out or taking damage from a bad read. Shotos can be very painful if she cannot play a strong neutral game and is unable to punish their whiffed cr. mk poke attempts with overheads.

That’s what scares me also, overhead over my Cr.Mk into death…

I don’t have much experience against any good Rogs, the only ones I’ve played were bad. I updated the list to put him a C. But I have heard he’s a lot better than that.

Thank you for a quite insightful post. It really was great learning about Xiaoyu. I wish I could write more, but I have to get ready for work. :stuck_out_tongue: