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361

Here’s my quick thoughts of these vids:

Mai:
Mai is not for fakes, as she does low damage, you must pick every opportunity you have to do damage. Maybe he was nervous.

Yamaz:
You can’t let yamaz to get near to you. Yamaz should be away and stopping his attacks.

Rick:
Tung shows how to beat a strong Rick: get your turtle as maximum and you have half of cake eaten. And as Rick is most quick attacks, you know, fast attack to beat the other one, so it’s unidimensional.
A parenthesis here: Caution with Rick. If he starts to be turtle and just low combos, you’re in big trouble.

Tung: Not so much to say. His qcb attack is great.

And there were some other matches I can’t talk too much. A weak Kim, good Krauser, another good Tung.

Well, enough for me. Let’s stand to see others to write about.

It’s a shame they don’t play online. They have all the tools: level, insane internet connections, challenge, organization. And you don’t need an extreme joystick to play on it. But if they require it, well, japanese are rich, so they can cost one very easy.

The only thing I can do due to my lack of enough money to travel to Japan, is to stay online, and kick every one who challenges me. Of course, having all respect they deserve.

And you Soh, play online?

362

Ok, finally I can understand better your point of view Malfreds, but I have to disagree on Mai and Yamazaki: Mai is poor in rb2 (compared to herself in other games), there is not much you can do with her. One of the best things she has is her pressing/rushdown with fake cancels and as you said she has poor damage but if Mai doesn’t use fakes she can do only lesser damage comboes and hasn’t the pressing. without P.power she hasn’t great damage comboes, note that there is not a BIG difference of damage between a combo finished with the S.power or with the qcb+A.
My suggestion is to save mater for breakshots which are free damage and the best tool to get out of the opponent’s pressing (same for Tung who hasn’t a good S.power) and the qcb+A knocks down.
About Yama I don’t agree beacuse in RB2 he has many good options to use near the opponent especially the command grab and comboes from the ovehead. Also Yama has the df+A which is one the fastest pokes in the game (and it’s cancellable!) and the best A+B (the second hit of the chain B->f+C) hands down.
I am not saying that Yama can not play well from long distance, just he can play even at restricted distances, I would agree with you if we were talking about RBS Yama, in facts he isn’t effective like in RB2 at low distances (even if the command grab has a better range) and the snakes tamers were better in RBS.

Overall here are my 2 cents on the vids: first of all, all players play in a very safe way using the cancels eveywhere and thay had a great sense of distance and positioning (Example: note how in the Mai mirror the red Mai takes the distance and press with her dash B fake cancelled and how often she is already positioned (look @ 2:40) to punish from the behind the blue one after a jump.
The Rick player wasn’t great but not bad, just a level over the basic: he use well the dodge as anti air and he knows how pressing with low punches but seems he don’t know how to use the overheads, also he used too much qcf+A as a throw setup.
Tung was great, not much to say, he used his dp very very well (note that the trajectory sucks and often whiff) and I had never seen someone who can use that as a reverse anti air (It has done 2 times then it’s not a coincidence), also people can’t blame the fact he plays very defensive, it could seem scrubby but it’s effective, in fact the Tung user won the tournament beating every opponent 3-0 and damn, it’s a tournament, players tend to play safer as much as possible.
Finally the Yama is great too, only once i’ve seen a yama player use constantly comboes with more than a df+A snake cancelled in a row (it was in a bounch of vids from rb2.sakura.jp maybe he could be the same player).
He reacts well, for example against Rick at 1:58 he used the df+A during Rick’s chains fake cancelled (timing is so close), good use of breakshots (Yama’s are a bit slow), against Mai he used very well the f+A->f+C chain as anti-air and as a fake overhead against Mai’s godly
P.power (@ 0:58).
That Yamazaki was more skilled than the Rick user but he lost because Rick could be a tough
matchup if he knows how to play against him: just stay out Yama’s df+A range and keep
pressing with low punches. If they enters Rick can do a lot of damage, also Rick is one of
the faster characters in the game, thank to his qcf+A he can compete very well against the
mid snake tamer.

Japanese don’t play online just because they have a scene, the players and the arcades and can host tournaments (with prizes) in perfect conditions without the problems of the online playing.

Personally I can’t take seriously the online playing for fighting games, sorry, I respect
who play on line, but i consider it for fun, for noobs, for learn.
When there is lag I immediately get angry if I can not do what I want, i’ve tried the p2p client and I don’t play well even with those in my same country. Probably my connection is too slow (2 MBps).

363

Just to jump into the convo.

That Rick did not deserve to be in the finals. I am not the best player ever (especially since I haven’t played in like month…after only playing 2 weeks to begin with), but it is easy to see. He barely even combos anything in that Tung match. It wasn’t that the Tung was amazing at keeping Rick out, but the Rick never capitalized (even on hit.). Everyone knows that Rick has great damage output, but if I were just watching that match I’d think that Rick’s best combo is 2a, 2a. It was sad.

364

Well, again it’s a shame japanese don’t play online. But as you say, they have their reasons.
You should try online man, you’ll find some great matches. But of course, you can compare to arcades, at least for now.
Your connection is pretty bad, considering you’re in Italy. Mine’s is worst (1 mb) but 2df is in Texas, very close to me so it’s enough :stuck_out_tongue:

About the other stuff, nice words. Good analysis with Yamaz. But as you say you need to be close to perfom some good hits, just like Rick, but not so speed.
:stuck_out_tongue: I agree about Mai, specially about her SDM (P.Power), it has saved me a lot of matches (guys who has challenge me know what am I talking about).
Mai is great pushing opponents with her standing B, qcf+A, and also running C. I don’t need a shoryuken move, just staying a little bit far where opp lands then a low combo or the options I wrote before.

365

Ill be on 2df in like 15 min for RB2 or LB2

366

damn i was playin battlefield

367

I was on just a few moments ago =x

368

The Rick in that tourney was the same guy who won the last one with Mary. I guess he just wasn’t being ultra-serious for whatever reason.

369

then his rick just isn’t that good to begin with?

370

hay guys

371

Only the server for the game lists is located in Texas. Once you start playing, you connect to each other, so only your distance to your opponent matters. Musolini and I would get perfect speed if we were to play.

372

yeah the dutch is close to norway. also fuck the pad or stick. i might just play you when i get some new batteries in the KB, should be good enough. 2df is played with FBA right? as long as i can put hotkeys on buttons it should be good enough. pressing 3 or more buttons at the same time doesn’t work on the KB.

373

You can do that quite easily. I wrote a small tutorial on how to add custom mappings over at the 2DF forums. I rely on it myself, being a keyboard user.

374

Why did SNK use black hitboxes for EVERYTHING? :frowning:

Kim hitbox set

[Mirror 1] - [Mirror 2] - [Mirror 3]

I’m not nearly as familiar with RB2 (I’m beginning to learn this game -and the all black and unusual hiboxes didn’t help-) as I’m with KOF '98, so there may be errors and missing moves. If you spot any, please tell me.

Also, I’ll try to post startup / active / recovery frames for each one of his moves tomorrow.

And, of course, if you want some character in particular to be the next, just request.

375

WOW! Thanks a lot, sir. This will be a great fit alongside the frame data!

One thing I’m interested in, generally speaking, is the hitboxes of A+B attacks versus strings that use those same moves - Yama’s B-C, Sokaku’s A-C, etc. It seems like the versions used in strings have a larger invincible area…

Many thanks again,
Josh.

376

I did those moves with Yama to test your theory

AB 1
AB 2

B-C 1
B-C 2

The first hit of the B-C string has upper body invincibility on hit (AB only has upper body invincibility in every frame before the hit), the second hit-frames are identical.

The rest we will know soon :slight_smile:

377

Interesting, and much appreciated!

To start a different discussion, I just wanted to say that though I am very impressed with the balanced matchups in this game, there are a couple very lopsided ones. In particular, Cheng is on the receiving end of perhaps the two worst fights in the entire game: Bob and Andy. Those two sound very odd to most of you, I’m sure, so let me explain.

Bob would not be that bad ordinarily, but Cheng has a glitchy hitbox that allows him to set up his corner infinite from 3/4 of the screen away. The combo in question is as follows:

(Jump C,) d/f+A -> d+B -> d+C xx dp+B, qcb+B xN

This only works on Cheng and makes things especially dangerous when combined with Bob’s throw, which can also set up the infinite from a long distance. Cheng’s keepaway game is still pretty effective, but overall I would say this is a 3-7 for him.

The Andy fight, on the other hand, is more of an all-around domination. This is mainly due to one move: The elbow. It is safe (unlike Hon-Fu’s roll), it can sometimes travel underneath Cheng’s fireballs (unlike Burn Knuckle or Tung’s lunge punch), and it cleanly beats the Blanka ball (unlike Rick’s Shooting Star). Even A+Bs are ineffective since Andy’s entire body is the hitbox. Without a doubt, the single dumbest matchup to watch and probably to play as well. 3-7 if not worse.

A couple other fights which are kinda bad are Kim vs. Franco & Krauser; besides Kim being top-tier in general, he has a safe instant overhead combo that only works on those two, and both that and his low combo knock down and reset the mixup. Those aren’t 3-7 level, though, since the big men have quality options of their own.

I’m really thinking about this community matchup chart idea, which is what brought me to this.

Should we do it by character, or what?

Thanks,
Josh.

378

Cheng’s C ball might work on the Zaneiken, since that has some startup semi-invincibility. Would have to check.

379

the bob against cheng was old news already. not sure, but try it against the chons, and tung too (did it also work on them?). also, when bob uses the dp+B as an AA against incoming jumpers it also sets him up for the infinite. not sure if it works against everyone though.

380

I got one question about Bob:
His df+A,d+B,d+C,dp+b combo works againts all chars? Because I’ve been trying it a lot with no sucess.