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It’s great to see this post, Josh. :tup: I have to admit that despite myself and knowing that there wasn’t any ill-intentions in beginning a new thread here, after a while (and other contributing factors) it got to be a little tough to not develop a bit of hard feelings about matters. Which, as a result rather put a hurtin’ on my enthusiasm to further contribute. :bluu:

I didn’t want to make a big deal of it, again because I know you didn’t do it with bad intentions in mind and because of your contributions to the scene whive have been amazing. :encore: Not to mention that it could be easily be misconstrued as me attacking you and so on and so forth. In no way did I want to diminish your contributions to the scene, but without the efforts of Yor, God 2.0, Arstal, ThrowtheDice, Musolini, and scores of others, not to mention myself, there may not have been a RB2 scene to begin with. :wow:

Gah, so hard not to sound like I’m tooting my own horn here. :sweat: Which is something I generally try to avoid. But I digress. You’re aces in my book, sir! And any help you need with things, just let me know. :tup: Speaking of I think it’s been long overdue for another set of commentary videos, what do you guys think? :bgrin:

There was one point in particular that he brought up that I wanted to address:

I’m definitely an old-schooler, so I thought I would give a shot at explaining this perception.

It’s no secret that SRK isn’t the most hospitable place for SNK-players. Granted, it’s much better and more open now than it has been (a fighting game drought of a few years will do that), but back in the day and the prevailing atmosphere used to be so bad and so overwhelming that it just became a question of “why deal with the headache?”

I was constantly having to dispell bizarre myths about SNK fighters, defend them, and so forth. And one of those ways is evident in my rather flashy playstyle. I agree that turtling / running away and focusing on one move are viable playstyles (despite generally not using them myself), however, those playstyles also make it easy for detractors (of which there were many at the time) to point to it and marginalize the game,

“see? Told you this game is bullshit. All he’s doing is spamming this move over and over again.” Or doing an infinite, or running away, etc. If a new player sees an expert doing the most simple, basic things, or over-relying upon a single move, then it can be easy for one to misconstrue the game as not having the depth that it actually has.

I mean, honestly, how entertaining is it to watch Sagat spam low Tiger Shots in SSF2X? Or Athena with :snkc:'s and Psycho Balls in 2k2? Yeah, they work, and you see -tons- of it in videos and such, but certainly not the kinds of things that’ll grab the attention of someone looking for a game to get into.

What I’m trying to show is that you don’t have to rely upon singular tactic, move, or be basic in order to be effective. You can be versatile, elaborate, and dare I say it, flashy, yet still have a style that’s tight and effective enough to be successful.

Of course, what some would call ‘showmanship’ can get me into trouble at times, and certainly I’ve lost more than one match on account of it, but for me it’s as much about having a good time as it is about fighting the good fight and the victory. :tup:

Again, this isn’t to say that the tactics listed above aren’t viable, but the danger in relying upon a single move or tactic is that they won’t know what to do if the person they’re fighting has a way around that particular tactic. Then everything crumbles.

Have a strong central tactic, but be versatile enough to have backup plans when things fall through, because they will. Remember [media=youtube]lafatLo4YnQ"][COLOR=“Orange”]this simple mantra and it’ll help you go a long way.[/COLOR[/media] :tup:

LOL, I still don’t think people believe that I use an N64 controller and have almost exclusively for 6+ years now. People ask how I manage it, and I’ve got to come clean…the weekly sacrifices of young virgins does wonders! :pray:

But yeah I totally empathize with you there. I have absolutely zero offline competition here. Essentially everything I learned about RB2 was from the ground up, often via a rudamentary practice mode via cheats and faqs. This was pretty much how I learned RB2 up until I started getting somewhat consistant matches about a year and a half - two years ago. I mean, just to put it into perspective: one of best players out there was a French girl (Emma) who used Geese. :amazed:

Ugh, no pressure…no pressure. :Hyperventilates. Passes out: :wasted: :lol:

Bah on you, Keits! There’s like…:counts fingers:…3 or 4 of us out there! Maybe even 5! :wink: But yeah, usually the best time, at least for me, is in the mid-afternoons into the night (thanks to the vampiric sleeping schedule I’ve been having lately).

Not that I know of, sadly. I think that if one did exist, God 2.0 would be all over it: the man’s a walking Mac commercial. :rofl:

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kinda of off topic, but as long as i have some power around here, ill try to keep snk as hospitable as i possibly can around these parts, i can promise you that. it used to be hell back in the early years, though…

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There are still people out there trying to make it uncomfortable, but it is getting better.
Definitely a large step up from agsf2 days.

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Almost forgot to mention this while my monster post from earlier, but yeah Beast of Fire, the info Josh gave you on Yamazaki is solid. There were a were a couple of further things I wanted to go over.

Yamazaki has great range, but he has poor coverage, meaning that it’s easy to go above and under his attacks. Which can put him at a disadvantage when dealing with small or crouching characters. However, there are ways around this.
Two of the best ways are aforementioned :df:+:snka: which has great coverage, is incredibly fast, and is not only a starter to a chain but is cancellable to specials and supers. The other is his :snka:+:snkb:, which is just nuts. This thing his huge priority, seems to cover his entire front, has upperbody invincibility (making it a suitable, if not his best all-purpose anti-air), but is bufferable into specials and supers.

A nice feature of his counter is that even if he’s hit from behind (from a crossup, for example) he’ll turn around and strike the opponent. The other thing is that, if by some miracle, you recover from the attack before he punches, you can’t block it. The only way to get away is by sidestepping, backdashing, or pulling out a very fast move with tons of invincibility (which won’t hit him because he’s invincible during his strike animation).

Yamazaki has the 2nd most damaging pursuit in the game (behind Geese, or 3rd, if you count Mary’s double pursuit while she’s in Escalation), which gives the opponent plenty reason to quick recover. However, Yama has the tools and the range to capitalize on this as well.

Whereas characters like Terry, Franco, and Sokaku want you on your feet for as much as possible, to continue their pressure, Geese, Yamazaki, and Mary what you on your back for their oki-games. If they roll into the backplane, :snkd: into a super or Judgment Dagger for yet another knockdown. If they quick recover, hop :snkc: into a combo, Snake Tamer, or (as Josh said, if you’re feeling lucky) S-Power. If they don’t get up, show them the underside of Yama’s shoes. :badboy:

I said it somewhere before (forgot where), but beware the Snake Tamer! I can’t stress this enough. Many players, particularly those new to Yamazaki, tend to overuse this move. It’s a great move for extreme-range poking / punishing, but be very careful in using it in close range because it has frame disadvantage on hit (which you’ll find here in Josh’s frame info.)

At a range, this is a non-issue, since no one has the range and the speed to capitalize on this. However, in close range this changes. I will gladly eat a Snake Tamer in close range to return with bigger damage. And against certain chars, like Rick, landing a close-range Snake Tamer can potentially equal 30% or more life lost.

Also, keep in mind that the :snkc:-version Snake Tamer hits low, and can’t be ducked or slipped under. This will be the one you’ll want to be using the most.

His overhead stomp (:dp:+:snkb:) buffers into the ground stomp (:d::d:+:snkc:), which is great for a nice chunk of damage and switching directions with the opponent.

A move that’s often overlooked is his jumping :snkb:+:snkc:, though it doesn’t have much range, and will only hit airborne opponents (of grounded tall characters) but this move is great for a variety of reasons:

  1. It’s fast (5 frames).
  2. Guaranteed knockdown.
  3. Juggable into the :snka:-version Snake Tamer and S-Power.
  4. Great for hitting characters above Yamazaki.

#2 is a stand out because it’s one of the few air moves and the only one that’s not a special or a super, that is a knockdown. This is great for control and oki-pressure.

Also, here is Musolini’s Yamazaki writeup from the old RB2 thread. I think that’s about all for the moment, hope this helps! :tup:

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Ban on me?! I am midwest/central time, homie!

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That was “bah” not “ban!” :rofl: And I know, I was messing with ya. :wink:

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Ghosty, Ghosty… Always with teh funnies. :stuck_out_tongue:

I use bootcamp myself, but you could always try out Parallels Desktop if you want a more convenient solution.

Regarding the Yama info, I have to mention a couple of things.
The regular :snka:+:snkb: is a good AB move, that is true, though not as godlike as many describe it as.

On the other hand, the apparently identical move he does in the :r::snka::snkc: & :snkb::snkc: chains, truly is godlike.
The move looks the same as the :snka:+:snkb:, but gives him complete upper body invulnerability through the entire move. After testing this, I found no high move that could beat it. It even beat Hon-Fu’s Sky of Fire, and every normal I threw at him. In addition, it pushes the opponent into the back plane, stressing him out and setting him up for a nasty mind game.

I would also like to mention that the :dp:+:snka:, the Judgement Dagger, is a very handy breakshot, but unlike most breakshots, this one can be quick recovered from. This adds just another pursuit game to Yamazaki’s arsenal. No other character has a pursuit game as involved as Yamazaki, since almost all his pursuit setups can be avoided with the quick recovery. The exception is his supers.

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the good thing is though if they try to avoid the persuit in the corner by quick recovering you get a free hit into another combo :slight_smile:

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I used to play with Yamazacre several time ago. Great char, specially with those Snake Arms. However, in a high match, is dismissable.
There’s no way, at all, you can beat a fast Rick or Hon-Fu, not mention Chonsu.
Once you get cornered, that’s all. There’s no fast move to escape, besides D and run. You’re forced to be always in low def, maybe poking with A, and sometimes B+uppercut, to look for minicombo.

I like Yamaz against Krauser or Geese, but vs Rick’s or Mai’s, Bob’s etc., no way.

Btw, maybe has been ansewered before but, is it a easy way to call the SDM 5th level? In arcade, I did it maybe just 4-5 times. I tried so many times that my hand bones are touched forever. It’s not a joke, I can’t do the same velocity pressing the button before my hand starts to get in pain.

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Guide at GameFAQs says that for level 5, you perform a Level 4 (13 Taps) then hit (ABC).

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I forgot to mention one thing. The thing that makes the P Power finisher even harder to execute, is that if you press ABC before pressing 13 times, you will reset the count to 0, getting the weakest version instead.

Personally, I move both hands over to my attack buttons and hammer the key with each of my index fingers in tandem. This gets me to the Snake Tamer version, which still deals more damage than other P Powers in the game.

I have to disagree. Yamazaki is definately one of the stronger characters, and he can deal with corner pressure quite decently. His breakshot capabilities are good with the Judgment Dagger, which also allows him to escape the corner after using it. His :df::snka: is faster than any other normal in the game, which means that he can use it to beat his opponent’s attack strings if there is a sufficient opening to do so. If they get to close, he has 2 grabs to choose from, one of them switching sides, leaving his opponent now cornered, and his AB move is quite good.

Chonshu is a very hard match though, being so small and hard to hit, and his :snkc::snkc::r::l::snkc: combo makes him resistant to breakshots.

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not true. yamazaki has a hard time against everybody who can easily avoid his middle snake tamer (aand/or his sC) because they are too small. chon su hard? nah not really. yama has other tools to keep chon away and even pressure him besides the snake fists. not to mention chon has to be damn close to even land decent damage against yamazaki.

same for tung and mai, who are also hard as they seem to avoid his sC and middle snake too often simply by dashing or just standing still. andy can be a bastard against yama. small, fast moves, small and still damaging combos, and if he gets a good hit on you you lose a damn big chunk of life. not to mention some of his moves are fast enough to even counter the snake fist, and other moves go under it. def one of his harder fights. i have gotten more trouble from andy and mai then from the chons and tung.

another small note, the jumping BC attack can also be followed up by the dp+B move if done right. but this is really hard, and should only be done on CERTAIN situations. with certain i mean when you are certain it will hit.

also, his f+A or B chained into his C (doing the AB attack) does have more priority than the normal AB move. abuse it. especially against hon, as he could give you trouble otherwise (roll attack and fire noogie).

on the level 5 subject, it has very little uses and in the corner the level 4 is even better as you CAN pursuit afte it, unlike the level 5. if you wanna know my method of doing level 5 ill gladly share. while pressing C watch what yamazaki does. when he starts to hang backwards more than normal it means you have about 4 hits of the C left. during this time pay close attention AND PRESS ABC AS SOON AS YOU SEE HIM GO RED. doing it this way will guarantee you will always get the level 4 even if you fuck up the level 5, otherwise you could have gotten suck on level 1 instead.

hope it helps a lil bit.

edit: who has the best AB attack in the game? is it andy? loads of invincibilety and damn long reach not to mention comboable into some serious damage.

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Best A+B attacks? Sokaku & Tung for sure - they hit very low to the ground, meaning that if an opponent jumps you will go through their air attack but not hit them until they land. Thus, you can combo from them. Andy’s seems real good too, though I have hardly played as or against him. I do know that all of these also have decent horizontal range for poking, which can be very helpful as well.

BTW, that is very interesting how the chains have more priority than the A+B by itself. I just tested and found that this is the same case with Sokaku as well:

  • Sokaku’s A+B will always lose to Rick’s j.C, regardless of timing.

  • However, his A-C chain will always trade with it, and deal more damage!

What I am suspecting here is that the chained versions have an even larger area of invincibility than the A+B’s. That is, while the A+B’s seem to be vulnerable at the legs, the chains may only be vulnerable at the feet!

Glad to see the old gang posting again, we’ve already got some good stuff coming out of it!

-Josh

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Mmm, I think another standout is Krauser’s and potentially Billy’s. Krauser’s in particular drives me crazy (a certain updated deity in here knows why that is :arazz:). I have the feeling that Rick’s is much better than it appears (it consistently beats Krauer’s clean, and that’s saying something).

I don’t use :snka:+:snkb:'s all that much, though, mainly because the chars I use the most (Mary, Franco, and Chonshu) have terrible ones. The other thing is that they’re primarily a defensive tool, and I’m rarely defending long enough to think about using them. :lol:

Oh, just recalled another :snka:+:snkb: attacks that seems to be quite good: Cheng’s. Bob’s is much like Andy’s, but with perhaps a little less range.

Something to consider in judging the effectiveness of a char’s :snka:+:snkb: attack (there aren’t any proper names for these that I’ve been able to find anywhere. We definitely need to come up with one :confused:), is what their options are from landing one. Mary’s in particular especially sucks because, outside of Escalation Mode, she only has 2 options in comboing from it: the Crab Clutch, which you have to have the foresight to have charged before you perform the :snka:+:snkb:. And then there’s the :snkc: followup, which, if memory serves, can put her in frame disadvantage on hit. :bluu:

Hmm, as far putting a title to :snka:+:snkb: attacks, how’s ‘riposte’ or ‘counterblow’ sound? :wonder:

And it’s good to be posting info again: it’s been too long! :tup:

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Terry has one of the best. His A+B followed by Fire Kick is one of the most annoying quick combos in game.

Rick has a strong close-range. After you stop his base, (jumping trying to open for a rush), you can get deep in a “low battle”, where he stays always in low def, abusing the A,A,B,C, which is annoying has hell. Here’s why I wrote about Yamaz dismiss, simply can’t go in this kind of battle.

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I think your idea of calling them riposte attacks is a good idea, and from now on I will call them as such.

Rick’s riposte will beat Krauser’s riposte if Krauser uses his first, but not if Rick uses his first. This is true for most riposte moves, because they have invincibility during startup, before they actually hit, but not after they hit. Since Rick’s version takes longer time to hit than Krauser’s, it will beat it if they are used simultaneously.

This is the reason why Franco and Geese’s riposte moves seem to trade more often than Krauser or Andy’s. Since they hit very quickly, they also have a very small period of invincibility, making it harder to time it. The earlier you use it, the higher risk of trading hits.

It is very difficult to say which one is the best. Usually you will see the riposte attacks used more often with characters that lack dragonpunch moves and solid anti-airs. Joe for instance, has a good riposte, but he does not need it as much as Krauser, because he already has some good anti-airs already.

I have to go with Krauser’s, since he relies more on it than most, and also because his has good coverage, and takes fairly long time to hit, making it easy to time. (Or spam)

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for joe missing a tiger kick can mean big damage. so the only times i use the TK is as an anti air, in combos or when im close and i use it to counter with it. but for those long range pokes, joe can annoy them really well. his AB has pretty decent range, and it easily combos to the slash kick B, no matter from what distance. the damage is also annoying as well. tigerkicks invincibilety is only in the starting frames when hes still on the ground. so AB is great for punishing those further ranged pokes.

also couldnt we jst call them AB attacks? i could look in the cd manuel to see what their called but is it needed? AB seems just fine if you ask me.

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A+B attacks are called Evasion Attacks.

There. It’s settled.

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I never did comment on this, so Ghostpilot:

The thing is, too, years ago there was no way to know which SNK games were any good and which ones were trash. People all seemed to play different ones, without any real consensus (aside from 98/2k2/Garou), so it was easy to completely write them off. Hell, still to this day I have to fight for a few core games to focus on!

Youtube was what really began to change this. Believe me, nobody on SRK even knew anybody played RB2 in tournaments until then.

Additionally, the scene has matured to some extent. Not the majority of random forum heads, but the people who actually travel to tournaments or otherwise try to improve their game; over the years, they have learned to give all sorts of different games a chance (witness Marvel guys playing Arcana Heart!), and they have learned to appreciate good defense. Years ago, even other high-level players would say that they don’t respect Justin Wong since he plays like a pussy, which is the sort of phrase & sentiment you hardly hear these days. In fact, defensive strategies have become the most common among SRK tournament players; you can even see this in WHP, where Erick is the most popular choice among newer players.

Hell, even infinite combos aren’t quite the kiss of death you make them out to be anymore. The players understand that they need to play carefully to avoid them, and the crowd in particular LOVES them. Since they have an obvious rhythm to them, they allow people to chant along; you also see this with non-infinite loops like Yun’s Genei-Jin or any number of Guilty Gear/Arcana combos.

So with all of this in mind, I think we don’t need to be protective of particular games anymore. Show the entire picture, and let them rise or fall on the sum of their merits.

-Josh

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Picked up Battle Archives 2, been practicing on that. Kind of liking Geese, the writeups in the first post are so GDLK GDLK!