oh yeah, i was looking at the standing lk stats but anyway c.lk still kicks ass
Here’s a preview of some of the shit I’ve finally gotten around to working on…
Knockdown and wakeup games
In my opinion, this is what really makes Elena, Elena. Elena has one of the best wakeup mixups in the entire game. You can stand in one position and effectively go for a low knockdown, an incredibly fast overhead, a successful kara throw, or land your best combo. The absolute best part of this whole strategy is that if you learn to do it properly, you can execute all the moves from the same place, leaving them only to guess what you could possibly do! It’s not without its flaws; however, this section should show you how best to go about playing wakeup games with your opponent, and what dangers to look for.
In Street Fighter 3, everyone’s basic wakeup game has five options: Low attack (for those that wake up standing), Overhead (for those that get up crouching) throw (for when your opponent gets up without a move, or attempts to parry), Attack (for when your opponent wakes up with a non-reversal type move), and Block/Parry (for when your opponent makes a reversal attempt). Not everyone can execute their wakeup game from the exact same spot; in fact, Chun-Li and Elena are about the only two characters that would even play this type of wakeup game that have this advantage and can use all five options. Here, I’m going to go over all five of them for Elena.
First, The Basics:
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The optimal range is the max range at which you can land a C.Roundhouse, T+Foward Overhead, UOH, Kara-Throw, and a C. Strong XX EX Spin Scythe/SA2 Combo. You should not have to move forward at all; the key is to always be at the exact same distance, so that none of your options are telegraphed.
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Make sure that you always are acting the same way when you get into position; for example, if you always crouch when you’re going to go for a sweep, you’ll become readable. The two basic things you can do are to constantly tap crouch, or go into all your moves from a crouching position (I don’t reccomend standing at the position, since your position will change a lot when you’re standing - remember, Elena’s fighting stance moves her around!). Whatever you do, though, don’t mix it up between rounds! I would reccomend choosing one or the other (I personally like tapping crouch rapidly, cos it’s more confusing)
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Don’t try and compensate if your opponent does a roll wakeup, because even that can be sort of telegraphed. I have a friend whom I play with that would always retaliate if he did a roll wakeup, because he saw that I would always try and dash to stay in position. Don’t bother! Either attempt your next move from where you stand, or wait to see what he does and react accordingly!
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Remember, this wakeup game can also be played off of a reset (I.E after landing a J. Strong -> J. Fierce target combo), but be wary of your positioning, because you have less time to get set up off of a reset.
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Elena’s only low option is very unsafe against opponents with moves that move forward at a quick speed (Shippu, Hoyoku-Sen, Corkscrew Blow, EX Chariot Tackle, etc.). At the max range, it can usually only be punished by a reversal, but this is sort of useless, since you have to change your position, which not only limits your options, but telegraphs what you’re going to do. So, be wary.
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Elena’s conventional wakeup game does not work on Hugo, do to the fear of a reversal 360. if you must try, I would reccomend getting to the max range of her C. Strong, eliminating the kara-throw option, and subbing the T+Forward overhead for the T+Strong Overhead. This way, you can still use most of her wakeup game without fear of getting 360’d.
Now, onto the nitty gritty…
- Low Attack: Elena’s main option for a low attack should be her C. Roundhouse. Do NOT attempt to use her slide kick, because it’s outrageously unsafe on block. C. Roundhouse is great, because it scores a knockdown, and the more times you knock an opponent down, the more chances you have to read what they do and react accordingly. You need to learn to size up your opponent’s reactions quickly, and this is the best way.
When your opponent has meter (Or in other words, access to a move that moves forward quickly), eliminate this option; it can be easily punished at the distance you’ll be using it from, and it can still be punished by reversals at max range. You still have four safe options.
- Overheads: When your opponent doesn’t have meter, I would strongly reccomend using the Toward+Forward overhead. It’s very fast, and very long range. Whether you land it or it gets blocked, you’ll recover at about the same time as your opponent. From here, I would reccomend you do three things: Attempt a Kara-Throw (for those that just block afterwards or make parry attempts), Block/Parry (for those who make reversal attempts), LK Scratch Wheel (for those who try nonreversal moves), or EX Scratch Wheel (For those who attempt to jump away). The reasoning and philosophy for all of these different options is explained on numbers 3, 4, 5, and 6 of this list (though 3-5 should be used even when not followed by an overhead).
When your opponent has meter, Towards+Forward is very unsafe on block. Thankfully, unlike the Low option, you can substitute T+Forward for Elena’s UOH. A meaty UOH can link into C. Strong, which means if you successfully land the UOH, you can get off an EX Spin Scythe/SA2 Combo. The only reason I don’t reccomend doing it normally is because you’re not in a position to keep the pressure on your opponent if it gets blocked, and, for SA3 users, you should also try to conserve your meter, in case you want to use Healing (See the ‘Healing Game’ section for more on this particular philosophy).
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Kara-Throw: After using your highs and lows, your opponent will begin to start parrying. At first, it might seem like this thwarts your game, but that’s where the Kara-Throw comes in. If you see your opponent is parrying your highs and lows a lot, start breaking out with the Kara-Throw! This will get him to start trying to guess when you’re going to throw, too, making it safer again to try highs and lows.
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Stuff Attack (C.Strong/LK Scratch Wheel): So, if for some reason your opponent likes to try and wake up with random normal moves or throw attempts, you can use C. Strong XX EX Spin Scythe/SA2 to punish them for trying. This option is mostly incorporated for the sake of completion, since you probably won’t be doing this very much against a good player; however, if the opportunity arises, you should know what to do…
Also, after a Towards+Forward Overhead, you might notice that it sets up its own guessing game afterwards for Kara-Throw, Stuff Attack, or Block/Parry. In this situation, don’t use C.Strong, because it’s too slow to stuff Light Attacks (it works just fine as a meaty, which is why you would use it on wakeup). Instead, use LK Scratch Wheel, because it generates a knockdown, and is very fast.
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Block/Parry: So now you’re in big trouble because your Ken opponent keeps getting up with a Reversal Shoryuken or SA3. You can’t beat those with highs, lows, OR throws (and certainly not with C. Strong)! Game over? Nope! Just block/parry and retaliate with C. Strong XX EX Spin Scythe/SA2. This is the more practical execution of the ‘Stuff Attack’ option, and combined with it, is how you effectively deal with anyone who likes to be aggressive when they get up.
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Anti-Air: this option is specifically for use with the T+Forward Overhead followup. After T+Forward, your opponent will have enough time to try and jump away. If you anticipate them trying to do that, use an EX Scratch Wheel; it’s fast, and unlike LK Scratch Wheel, it makes decent anti-air.
With all these options, your opponent now has several things to worry about, and if you can read your opponent well enough, and keep the pressure on, you can deal a TON of damage with this tactic. I hope it works for y’all as well as it does for me! Good luck!
For Chun-Li, I would mirror pretty much everything shiningsoul said, except for that I have terrible luck using Elena’s roundhouse kicks, because Chun-Li is really thin, meaning they only work at fairly close proximity (you have to do a lot of anticipating). Other than that, I agree with everything:
- Do random dash-throws
- Do random slide kicks
- play lots of wakeup games (he’s right that going high is a winner on Chun players more often than not)
- stay out of the max range of her more used normals and try to punish whiffs
- Be careful when she has meter, and prepare to tech a lot of stuff.
- And lastly, I DO think this is the only match for Elena where SA2 is CLEARLY better than SA3, because like shiningsoul said, EX Spin Scythe Combos completely whiff crouching Chun-Li every single time, meaning that Elena has no reliable means of dealing damage against her with SA3. You have to have SA2 ready to punish whiffs, combo off of C.Strongs and combo off UOHs.
Just patiently wait for an opening and wring it for all its worth. That’s how you fight Chun-Li.
if you guys haven’t noticed, on the front srk page, in the vids for Evo West 3S final 8, combofiend plays elena (and chun too). combo as elena plays hung’s ken/oro, then plays pyro’s yun with chun/elena, and plays chun versus amir’s chun (so no elena there). i’ve seen combofiend’s elena before, and i’ve seen him in tourney matches vs. hung before… but damn against hung his elena goes crazy.
Oh, certainly. Combofiend is a great example of how to play Elena. I think he doesn’t play enough wakeup games at all, but other than that, I think Combofiend is a great example of how to play Elena.
another confirmable move
J/hk is confirmable and it doesnt matter which hit hits for but they must be on the ground when hit not in the air, and if you rub the joystick good you can actually cancel jhk - upper cut - to SA1 or SA2.
Some random observations made after playing in FFA’s Ranbat 3.1 and 3v3 tournaments this past Saturday along with some other notes from past experience I’d like to share (beware: long post ahead):
Character Specifics
Vs. Alex
-Against Powerbomb tick set-ups use back + HK (kind of obvious, but if you get Powerbombed a couple of times, sometimes panic will set in and you’ll forget the obvious)
-Counter Stun Gun Head Butt (SA3) with standing LP
-At mid range Alex’s stand MK can go over and cleanly stuff Elena’s pokes; if the Alex whores stand MK, block one, then back + HK to catch the next one
-Against certain Air Stampede (flashkick stomp move) shenanigans, as soon as you block the first stomp jump back MP -> HP to counter the next Air Stampede
-His Air Knee Smash (dp + K) can counter Elena’s back + HK if done early enough
-Punish blocked Slash Elbows (MK, HK, & EX versions) with reversal Brave Dance [I don’t have a copy of the game on me so if someone could check this in training mode and confirm if it’s possible to counter all versions, that would be great]
Vs. Chun-Li
-If Chun has meter and is pressuring you, just block low! At closer distances her only viable options are UOH (which you can high block on reaction), stand HP, back + HP, low MK (which all can be crouched blocked), and karathrow (which you can tech). Eventually Chun will have to change strategies or will make a mistake like cancel low MK into SA2 which you can block and parry the last hit, red parry, or parry the second string and take advantage of.
-After knocking down Chun, your best option as a wake-up attack when she has meter is early/meaty universal overhead; it cleanly stuffs EX Spin Bird Kick and if she doesn’t EX Spin Bird and gets hit you might be able to link low MP
-Since Chun’s ground game is so strong you’ll eventually have to take to the air; any time you attempt a frontal jump attack try to make it as meaty as possible and option select by inputting a parry when your sprite is about to touch her; meaty cross-up forward can also help you get in, but if Chun ducks or walks under it, that’s your ass because no trip guard = low MK xx SA2
-If you’re playing Elena with SA2 and Chun jumps in with an attack thus losing trip guard, don’t forget that you can also walk under her and low LK xx SA2
-If you’re right outside Chun’s low MK range EX Mallet Smashes can help you get in and if you catch her crouch blocking you can link stand LK -> HK Scratch Wheel
-Against Chun empty jump (with parries to cover anti-air attempts) then throw or go low (low LK -> Scratch Wheel or SA2) can help score that knockdown; if you catch them once with empty jump throw, empty jump again and LK Scratch Wheel to counter her throw tech
Vs. Dudley
-When Dudley has meter and you score a knockdown, back off! Dudley has a much harder time getting in on Elena than vice versa so use that to your advantage to build meter with low MP, keep him out and further frustrate him
-If Dudley jumps in on top of you use stand MP or stand LP to anti-air. After this, using toward + MP overhead is usually good at catching the opponent as he lands
-If Dudley jumps from farther away, you can walk back and, as anti-air, use low MK if he doesn’t have trip guard which will force him onto the ground or use low MP to force a flip recover which will keep him further away
-Dudley’s optimal range is in close to start up his mix-ups so keeping him out can work in your favor. If you push him out to farther ranges his only options are stand HK (to build meter), stand HP, or toward + HP, all of which can be countered with a timely low HK or back + HK
Vs. Hugo
-Being such a big target makes Hugo susceptible to multi-hit jump attacks
-If Hugo whiffs low MK or low MP, you can counter poke with stand HK. If you catch Hugo during the start-up of these moves, stand HK can also counter poke them
-While fighting on the ground, low MK, when done so that it hits at the tip, can out prioritize many of Hugo’s moves at this range. At closer ranges low MP can stop many of Hugo’s pokes during their start-up frames
-If you block Hugo’s Giant Palm Bomber (clap move) and Hugo dashes in afterward, mash back + HK to counter his Moonsault Press
-If Hugo air-to-airs you and you land after he does, watch out for his Meat Squasher (run up command throw); back + HK should stop him from grabbing you and putting you in the corner
-When Hugo jumps in at a distance, don’t forget that Elena’s low MK works well as an anti-air (make him land on your foot)
-If you land low MP xx EX Spin Scythe, instead of burning two more EXs you can follow up the Spin Scythe with LK Rhino Horn -> HK Scratch Wheel, although the timing for this is much more difficult (but worth the damage/meter trade-off, especially if you’re using Healing)
Vs. Ken
-If you knock down Ken and get in close your best option is to down parry on Ken’s wake-up and go from there; a down parry will work against low LK, low MK, or shoryuken
-When Ken has meter you cannot blindly stick out low MP; if blocked, he can punish with SA3; to try to cover this up, if Ken does block low MP, you can cancel into LK Spin Scythe (minus the second motion follow-up) which is fairly safe, or at least safer than low MP by itself
-While with SA2, if you block a sweep and have meter, punish with Brave Dance
-Don’t use Sliding very often against Ken, even if he’s whiffing random low MKs that look punishable
Vs. Yun
-To counter dive kicks done from close range, jump back HP works well. To counter dive kicks done from farther away use back + HK. Land a few of these, some karathrows, some overheads, and Yun will be stunned = fancy combo time!
-Against Genei-Jin, just crouch block. If Yun tries to hopkick, low LP or low MP done early enough will counter that. If Yun uses universal overhead just block high on reaction. If Yun ticks with a couple low LPs or low LKs then walks up, counter Zenpou Tenshin (command grab) with back + HK
General stuff
I’d have to reiterate what skankin says and say that if the opponent quick tech recovers and if they have an uppercut-type move or if they have meter, never dash in close. While Elena’s mix-ups are fairly strong getting in too close usually puts you where the opponent wants you to be. It might seem “cheap” or whatever, but turtling up a little bit and building meter with low MP, while zoning with Elena’s great pokes can immensely frustrate your opponent and force him to make mistakes. Furthermore, it seems that when certain characters quick tech and Elena dashes in twice, Elena hasn’t recovered from the dash while the opponent has already gotten up and is free to attack. For example, against Ken, if Elena throws and Ken ground rolls, then Elena dashes in twice (to get in close) Ken can jab shoryuken for free which means he can double-shoryu for free.
Off of any landed jump-in HK or HP you can link into SA2 (assuming you have meter). I wouldn’t cancel from the Scratch Wheel though, if I were you, simply because of damage reduction from the super cancel. Other hit confirmable moves into SA2: late cancel low MP, phatty meaty toward + MK on opponent’s wake-up, phatty meaty stand HK on opponent’s wake-up, meaty back + HK on opponent’s wake-up, meaty stand HP -> HK on opponent’s wake up, and universal overhead. Plus, if you use SA1, a regular stand HP -> HK done from close enough can be linked into Spinning Beat (Akutabi Gamma, this might be what you saw in the Jasmine combovid, though I haven’t seen it myself).
If you’re ever backed into a corner, your best friend is the “Save Me, Jesus! button” (or simply the “Jesus button”), i.e. Elena’s back + HK. If it connects with the opponent (hit or blocked) it pushes them out to give you breathing room, it builds meter, it cannot be thrown, and it goes over low pokes. Pretty much whore back + HK when you’re in the corner and work from there to get out.
Also, the Jesus button works best when done when you have frame advantage (like after the opponent blocks a stand LK, stand HK, or back + HK). Usually, Makoto’s low MK stuffs all of Elena’s pokes, but if you get some frame advantage, Elena’s HK or back + HK will counter it during it’s start-up. Another use for back + HK is as anti-air if the opponent will land in front of you, but it also works well if you dash under or walk under the opponent as he jumps then as soon as you cross-under back + HK–so basically walk or dash, keep holding that direction then hit the Jesus button as you cross them up.
Hopefully, this post helps someone out. Personally, I still have a lot of trouble against Makoto, Ken, Ibuki, and, of course, Chun. Be on the look out for my match in FFA’s Ranbat 3.1 Best Bout series. My only match that they recorded was really shitty though, but at least I’ll have footage of myself losing to see where I made mistakes (missing low MP xx SA2s and not using jump MP -> HP as air-to-air). Honestly, I was almost ready to give up Elena and just train and develop my Chun; apparently, Combofiend’s picking up Yun after feeling the frustration that Elena players develop, but I hope it’s not a permanent change. After doing fairly well at the Ranbat (a match or two away from top eight) and the 3v3 afterwards (my team placed 3rd) and getting props from Combofiend, I’m reinvigorated and have strengthened my resolve to represent Elena. I hope this gives Elena players a few more tools to work with and if anyone has some tips against Makoto (low LK xx Hayate madness, seemingly godly jump attacks like jump HP, jump MK, and Tsurugi–jumping axe kick), Ken, and Ibuki (multi-hit poking style and keeping you locked down in blockstun) that would be much appreciated.
shiningsoul,
Thanks alot for the info. After vacillating between several characters lately, I’ve come back to Elena as one of my primaries, and this info is very helpful. Thanks alot for posting some in-depth info about various matchups. Also looking forward to seeing you in action on Best Bouts 3.1, hopefully it gets done sooner rather than later.
Thanks to my advice :tup:
Elena’s B&B combos - who do they work on MIDSCREEN!?
So yeah. Elena has three very important combos:
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C.Mp XX Ex Spin Scythe, EX Rhino Horn, Hk Scratch Wheel
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C. Mp XX Ex Spin Scythe, Lk Scratch Wheel, and
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C. Mp XX Ex Spin Scythe, /\ J.Mp -> J. Hp (reset).
They’re important for two reasons:
- Her main ways of dealing damage without SA2, and
- They don’t require the corner to work.
…Or do they? I suppose this is common knowledge to some, there are some people that these combos won’t work on midscreen. So, here’s a list of which combos work on which characters midscreen. The combos will be called 1, 2, and 3, based on their number in the above list. If I list a number, then it works on the character midscreen.
Yun: 1, 2
Notes: Timing on Combo 1 moderately hard - perform EX Rhino Horn as early as possible to finish combo properly. Do not finish combo if EX Rhino Horn only hits once.
Akuma: 1, 2, 3
Ryu: 1, 2, 3
Remy: 1, 2, 3
Notes: On Combo 1, Hk Scratch Wheel doesn’t land all hits; every other version lands all hits. The best version in terms of damage to meter is to finish with Mk Scratch Wheel.
Urien: 1, 2, 3
Notes: On Combo 1, delay HK Scratch Wheel in order to land all hits.
Oro: 1, 2
Notes: Timing on Combo 1 moderately hard - delay EX Rhino Horn to finish combo properly. Do not finish combo if EX Rhino Horn only hits once.
On Combo 2, Perform Lk Scratch Wheel as early as possible to connect.
Q: 1, 2, 3
Notes: On Combo 1, Hk Scratch Wheel doesn’t land all hits; every other version lands all hits. The best version in terms of damage to meter is to finish with Mk Scratch Wheel.
Necro: 1, 2, 3
Notes: The timing on Combo 1 is particularly strange - it’s possible to land all hits with HK Scratch Wheel; however, you need to delay the EX Rhino Horn a very specific amount. If you perform the EX Rhino Horn too early, HK Scratch Wheel will only hit once. If you perform EX Rhino Horn too late, all versions of Scratch Wheel will miss. For consistency, use MK Scratch Wheel - I have never landed an MK Scratch Wheel vs Necro that failed to connect both hits.
Dudley: 1, 2, 3
Notes: Landing Combo 1 on Dudley is possible, but very, very hard. For starters, it’s REALLY hard to land both hits of the EX Rhino Horn (and, consequently, finish the combo). You must perform the EX Rhino Horn as early as possible, or after a very specific delay. Even then, I’ve run into a few instances where I’ve landed both hits of the EX Rhino Horn and STILL managed to miss the Scratch Wheel. SECONDLY, even if you land the Scratch Wheel, there are certain circumstances (which happen more often than not) where HK Scratch Wheel doesn’t connect all hits. As usual, I would default to MK Scratch Wheel. On the other hand, I wouldn’t even recommend trying this combo on Dudley in Midscreen.
On Combo 2, Perform Lk Scratch Wheel as early as possible to connect.
Chun-Li: 1, 2
Notes: On Combo 1, perform the HK Scratch Wheel when Chun-Li is as close to the ground as possible in order to land all hits…not that you often have any spare time to wait, since Chun-Li falls so damn fast…but, if you do…wait a second to finish the combo.
Ibuki: 1, 2
Notes: Combo 1…ugh. It’s VERY hard to pull off on Ibuki, and perhaps not even worth it. I didn’t finish studying this as much as I could have, and might come back to it later, but here’s what I know: EX Rhino Horn will never connect both hits. That’s about it. Other than that, I’ve never successfully landed any Scratch Wheel except the Hk version - I’m not sure if Lk Scratch Wheel won’t connect, or if I just suck too much.
On Combo 2, Perform Lk Scratch Wheel as early as possible to connect.
Elena: 2
Notes: Fuckin’ Elena. Of course her own Midscreen B&Bs doesn’t work on HERSELF. At least it’s virtually impossible to miss the only one that DOES work.
Makoto: 1, 2, 3
Notes: Landing Combo 1 is not hard; however, due to the way Makoto falls, you can not buffer the Scratch Wheel too early. Don’t start the motion for the Scratch Wheel until Elena has landed.
Sean: 1, 2, 3
Hugo: 1, 2, 3
Notes: Landing Combo 1 is not hard; however, due to the way Hugo falls, you can not buffer the Scratch Wheel too early. Don’t start the motion for the Scratch Wheel until Elena has landed.
Twelve: 1, 2, 3
Notes: The timing on Combo 1 is particularly strange - it’s possible to land all hits with HK Scratch Wheel; however, you need to delay the EX Rhino Horn a very specific amount. If you perform the EX Rhino Horn too early, HK Scratch Wheel will only hit once. If you perform EX Rhino Horn too late, all versions of Scratch Wheel will miss. For consistency, use MK Scratch Wheel - I have never landed an MK Scratch Wheel vs Twelve that failed to connect both hits.
Alex: 1, 2
Notes: On Combo 1, HK and EX Scratch Wheel do not land all hits. You can land all hits of MK Scratch Wheel if you delay it as much as possible; however, it is probably the easiest to just finish with an Lk Scratch Wheel.
On Combo 2, Perform Lk Scratch Wheel as early as possible to connect.
Ken: 1, 2, 3
Notes: I’m gonna assume this can happen to all Shotos, but I’ve only made this happen with Ken: On Combo 3, it is possible to perform the J. Mp so early that the J. Hk will whiff.
Yang: 1, 2
Notes: Timing on Combo 1 moderately hard - perform EX Rhino Horn as early as possible to finish combo properly. Do not finish combo if EX Rhino Horn only hits once.
And that’s what I’ve got. If anyone wants to give me some more concrete information on any of this - ESPECIALLY how Combo 1 works on Dudley and Ibuki - feel free.
Give this dude some Rep.
Seriously.
Good shit man. :tup:
-SH
shiningsoul plays Elena
New Elena vids:
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This is “high-level play” by me. I.e. me getting beasted on/scrubbing out :sad:
What is Elena all about? She looks interesting, but I have no idea what her pros and cons are. Is she hard to play? Do you need to learn how to karathrow?
i started playing elena. what stands out to me most is her ability to mix up at a far or close range. she has a lot of threats, and if you’re good at fishing for parries she’s that much scarier.
her game is overall pretty solid, you have options is many situations unlike some other characters where they have a weak point to target.
would someone give me some advice on connecting jump strong, fierce after EX spink scythe?
I’ve been holding up forward during the kicks and pressing strong as she jumps. I’ve tried mashing it or timing it so I press as her body reaches the opponent, but I have inconsistent results. It seems like the timing is not intuitive (i.e press strong as she jumps air-to air)
any tips? (I kind of get the impression the strong has to be hit real early)
the only thing i can think of is that you’re doing it on the wrong character. try a shoto, and if not then possibly a twin (since they fly further up). but i’m no elena expert, that could be wrong. i never go for the reset either way :P.
it’s really important for when you have only one ex charge. I was practising vs Ken on DC and finding it tough :S
DCVersion is whack, so it might be that.
My best advice is to practing doing a J.Mp as soon as you leave the ground. It’s almost impossible to do it too early.
I totally agree with this statement. It is by far her best move while equipped with SA3. You are guaranteed full healing if connected, but be wary of some crouching opponents (Chun-Li). The crouching hp will whiff even if the mk connects.
Does the target combo mk, s.hp have any other uses besides setting up healing? I can’t find a use for it other than that. It seems to whiff so often (due to crouching) and the airborn time of the opponent is too small to get anything in afterward.
well, sometimes scoring a knockdown might be useful. but use this only for healing or mixup purposes, at least in mt humble opinion… =)