1st what are you testing the KDL46V5100 against?
No point really to test your tv against another LCD, best is to test it with a CRT.
2nd I dont i think you experiencing LCD input lag when playing against your friend, I think it more to do with online lag.
I’m fairly new to this(IE i only read first two pages and last three) but
I did a GH lag test on my LCD monitor and got a 7ms but I know that that is inaccurate due to the human factor. So I plan on doing the dual screen stop watch test but I am going to have to use my laptop(HP Pavilion dv2000 series) and i was wondering if using a laptop screen base for being lag-less is accurate? So far I have only seen People using desktops for the test…Sorry if this is a stupid question.
Specs:Xbox 360 with a VGA cable, Star Logic LCD 17inch standard Monitor (don’t know model of hand)
What you should do is calibrate your laptop screen against a CRT then you can translate from that for a second LCD monitor. Alternately you could just get a VGA splitter for the laptop output and keep it CRT vs. LCD. They cost about $5 on monoprice or similar.
I don’t own any CRTs, I have a 28inch LCD TV and the 17inch LCD Monitor. So I’m guessing I’m shit out of luck on that front? I do have a RockBand 1 guitar wired controller but I don’t think that uses auto calibration with RockBand2(which I could rent)
Alright, I’ll try to hook up to one of the CRTs in the house then. I don’t think my PC has SVideo out, so I can’t use my GXTV. yea I really don’t think it’s visual lag, because I can see actually how to do my links while I play but that crap frusterates me so bad. Thanks, I’ll update my situation later.
Input Lag
There’s an interesting article up on DigitalFoundry about input lag. They measure the input lag in games while factoring in any lag added by the monitor.
Here’s their measurement for SF IV:
What that means is that in order to find your real input latency, you have to add 67ms to your HDTV lag.
That article was interesting, but it really isn’t all that relevant to this discussion. All versions of SFIV probably have this 3 frames of inherent lag, making it a moot point. The focus is getting your display to be as lag free as possible to be consistent with arcades and CRTs.
Can anyone explain this:
Why is the crt still getting lag?
Was looking at picking one of these up for under $200 AUD but now…
VGA converter boxes - a solution?
This is a pretty large and varied subject and I’ve also recently found myself dealing with inpuyt lag nonsense. I found some stuff on some of the many forums linked from here which I’ll summarise in this post. Apologies if this is repeat information. This largely pertains to PS3 owners:
Some things to recall beforehand:
So, if we own a 1080p capable LCD television and we run SFIV on our PS3s using either component, composite or HDMI leads we get lagged to hell. Sure, we can enable ‘Game Mode’ and disable various features (as I do at the moment) but its not snappy enough. Lag is still there. SFIV outputs at 720p. Our sets are internally scaling the image, we’re not using our native res’ and we can’t force the PS3s to spit it out at 1080p. Ideally, we need SFIV to:
How do we do this?
With one of these:
http://www.iso420.org/general/xcm_1080p_mega_cool_vga/index.htm
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-86-49-en-70-2tw6.html
[media=youtube]mJj1E0FWXMc[/media]
The ‘Mega-Cool VGA Box.’ No, I’m not a shill for these guys. I’ve been looking at lots of options to combat lag and I’m about to order one of these, so I figured I’d share.
The key with this thing is that it INTERNALLY UPSCALES THE SOURCE IMAGE to an output resolution of your choosing INCLUDING 1080p BEFORE sending it to your TV set. What does this mean? It means that SFIV will output as 720p as usual to this device and then it will internally up-scale it to 1080p and THEN send that signal, via VGA, to your LCD television. Zing. Native resolution. Minimal lag. Via VGA. This is a much better way of upscaling our image to our set’s native resolution as this VGA box performs this MUCH faster than our televisions ever could.
I found one other alternative:
http://www.gamemanx.com/multi-platform/review-high-box-component-to-vga-converter/2008/05/20/
The “High-BOX VGA.” This one reviews somewhat poorly, requires an external power supply (Mega-Cool uses USB power) and supposedly the menus are cumbersome and retarded. It still achieves the same thing though - so its equally valid I guess as a solution.
There is also this:
Though as I understand it, this is NOT ideal. Why? Because it does not upscale the supplied image to a specified/chosen output resolution. So basically you will take the 720p image from SFIV, output it to VGA, supply that to your TV and then your TV will have to rescale the image to display it, invoking lag. Its essentially a bare-bones component > VGA converter. Your TV will still have to deal with scaling on its own.
The Mega-Cool box goes for around $80 USD and I think the High-VGA box can be had for about $60 USD.
If anyone’s hesitant about ordering any of this stuff, maybe hold out a couple weeks until mine arrives (I’ve ordered a Mega-Cool VGA box) and I’ll run some tests and post the results here. If you want a basis of comparison, I use the following:
Currently I run SFIV via HDMI with ‘Game Mode’ enabled. I’ve also applied ‘PC Mode’ to my HDMI port though that doesn’t do anything unless its running at its native resolution of 1080p, which is useless for me as my PS3 is basically an SFIV machine 
I also recently tried one of these:
http://www.mayflash.com/vgabox/vga004/vga004.htm
Now this did NOT work on my Samsung television. I have no idea why. However when I plugged it into my desktop LCD panel, it displayed fine. On my TV, it reported a ‘Mode Not Supported’ message which makes no sense as it was set to 1080p as indicated by both the PS3 AND my desktop LCD panel. Very odd.
Anywho. That’s about it. Hit me with any questions if you like, though if you’ve read this thread this far you likely know what you’re talking about anyways. I’ll post again once the VGA box arrives and let you know my findings. Thanks to all the contributors who have contributed information and knowledge to this thread. Its been very educational for me personally. I’d also like to say one last thing:
Fuck LCD panels.
><
I know what you mean.
Regarding scaling, I don’t think it’s a big deal with monitors. People tend to forget that the Evo monitor is 1080p native, and it’s happy with the 720p signal just fine. Most of my tests with scaling have only shown a few milliseconds difference on TN panels through HDMI.
I can definitely see the benefit with larger displays though. I just wonder if the difference the VGA boxes provide are due to using VGA instead of the composite box on the TV, rather than scaling. If you have a 360, you can just set it to 720p through a VGA cable and compare I guess.
It’s possible that it could be a CRT HDTV. A CRT display does not necessarily mean a lag-free display.
If this is an SD set I’d be really confused, It’d help to know the model number.
Sony KV-HX32 32" Widescreen TV
Hope it’s good news
It’s a widescreen CRT capable of 1080i image. The Rock Band test is reporting two frames of lag. I’ve gotta tell you that I’ve had some crazy results with CRTs and that test, but it never really went above 1 frame (16ms).
Anyway, if you want lag free and don’t mind SD big ol’ clunky screens, then CRTs are great, but if you want one that is HD then it’s in they are in the same bucket as LCDs as far as lag is concerned.
Cheers for clearing that up mate!
Is there a list of all the monitors/tvs that have been tested (on any forum not just srk).
I want to spice this tread up a bit and maybe do a lil bit of myth busting.
Is a lag free monitor really necessary to play sf4? did Capcom really intended sf4 to be played on a lag free LCD?
this will be the ultimate SF4 LCD test…I ain’t messing around!!!
I’ll be testing my lcd monitor against a crt.
I will be using the camera method.
tools will be…
-canon sd550 or Nikon coolpix p80
-isogear video splitter via VGA
-and a crt monitor.
and I’ll be using this timer http://tft.vanity.dk/inputlag.html
anything else i need to know to make the test as accurate as possible?
Why is your test different from any other test?
I can tell you that going from a bravia w5500 using a hdfury2 (which I thought was pretty much lag free) to using crt’s for locals, is a HUGE difference. To the point were I don’t use my lcd anymore.
Getting the used to the timing going from one to the other is annoying. In SSFIV they should introduce a calibration tool like Guitar Hero. Even a DLC for SFIV actually…
With the monitor we’re using - a fucking awesome one - we think it’ll come as close to a ‘pure’ experience as you can get.
SFIV is an HD game; all HD games played on LCDTVs will have lag. What we’re trying to do is to see if Capcom factored in using an LCD monitor for the game as opposed to CRT/SD.
I don’t know if this has been posted, but the DVDO iScan does the upscaling and makes it noticeable to less then one frame. Great for old school systems on the HDTV. Only problem is the mother fucker is expensive as hell.
I seriously considered getting one of these until I saw the prices… No thanks? I’m afraid I’ve sank enough $$$ into my lag-free gaming experience. I just kept my old CRT, threw it in the spare room (which we jokingly call a “game room”) and play PS2 and older games on that bad boy.
I saw used ones as low as 350-500 on ebay so it’s going down. Still it’s incredibly expensive. But having it upscale a NES to your 1080p television with half a frame of delay is good.