The New Dee Jay Matchup Thread

We’ve already got our general-bitching thread. I felt like the last matchup thread was a lot of help.

Let’s discuss DJ’s matchups now that a lot of that stuff has changed. The additions of LK Sobat regaining its low invul and an actual reversal in EX upkicks have a pretty significant impact on the matchup landscape in my opinion.

Freejay and Blaqskillz had some nice lists in the last thread.

Anyone want to share their thoughts? I always came to the matchup thread for advice, esp the two above mentioned lists were helpful in guiding my method of approach to matches I didn’t know. Tips help when you describe these matchups instead of just …

I can offer some Guile thoughts:

In my opinion its a solid 3-7 in Guile’s favor. There’s a specific sweet spot just at sweep range where Guile starts to sweat because you have actual options, but he has a painfully easy time guarding that space, as well as pushing you back out of it. Once you’re actually get in and score a knockdown, you have to make it count. Crossup provides great pressure against Guile’s flashkick since it can’t do anything to crossup, and since buttons are his only real method of getting you back out (or a reversal on block string), it all comes down to the frame trap game. One teched throw or an escaping button from Guile means you’re back to square one though. Empty jumping or using knee shot to close the gap during the neutral helps you worm your way into this precious space. Some cheeky FADCs in the neutral off of a slasher or a blocked sobat can be a risky way to spend bar, but if you catch him off guard and get a hard knockdown, it’s definitely worth it in my opinion. An expensive risk, but this matchup is all about risk management. Meter is relatively cheap too in this matchup.

While being defensive and holding onto the life lead is not as difficult as getting inside on Guile, it’s still pretty challenging if they know what they’re doing. Guile wins the fireball war because even if you can throw plasma at the same rate, the fast recovery on his boom lets him close the distance with bazooka knee and then, when he’s close, he can screen his normal attacks with fireballs to put on the pressure or defend against jump ins that aren’t straight reads. If he gets inside your space, his buttons have priority, and it’s even worse in the corner where the recovery and frame advantage of his Sonic Boom make finding a gap to escape through tough (best luck I’ve had in these cornered situations is somehow getting in a walk up backwards throw during a pause in his offense where he’s trying to let you hang yourself, or by getting a blocked crossup into pressure on him, IE reversing the tables and sticking him back in the corner rather than trying to fight him all the way across the stage). When Guile’s sitting on meter, his EX boom can really punish you in the fireball war and forces you to confirm his booms before throwing your slashers unless you want to risk getting punished. If you bait an EX boom out, its slow recovery gives you a chance to punish Guile, so it’s best to play more reactive when he’s sitting on bar and gauge how meter happy your opponent is. One wrongly spaced EX boom can be big trouble for Guile, though a smart Guile player knows he has no real reason to toss an EX boom at dangerous spacings without a strong handle on your fireball patterns, so don’t hold your breath for what will never come – just stay cautious and look for your opportunities elsewhere. My best luck against Guile in the fireball war is to threaten the dangerous spacing near his sweep range. EX booms aren’t safe at all and your options open up. He’ll likely hesitate here, which gives you time to take the initiative, for offensive or defensive purposes – don’t be predictable! If you get close to occupying this space several times then back off every time, the next time you get into that space he might get lazy on his guard thinking you’ll not take the opportunity, and then you can slip past his wall for a hard knockdown when you catch him looking, or, at the very least, get in for some block pressure to eventually get that knockdown.

Solid 3-7. Maybe can turn it to a 4-6 if you hit that beastmode. You need to get a strong read on Guile early on. Fortunately, getting a good read on Guile isn’t impossible because he’s not exactly a character with a massive list of options. He’s got a smaller list of extremely strong options. You’ll be able to pick up on a pattern eventually.

My contribution:

Rose: 10 - 0

Additional Contribution:

Dee Jay Forums vs Inactivity

0-10 matchup

Deleted.

did you need to put “vs dee jay” after every single one as if youre gonna surprise us with “vs honda” instead or something :V

Whatever do you mean? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Here’s my opinion on the whole cast. Half points could be argued a lot but I think these are all pretty close. If you think anything is off let’s argue about it.

3-7
Dhalsim, Rose, Yun

3.5-6.5
Blanka, Fei Long, Guile, Guy, Poison, Chun-Li, Sakura, Seth

4-6
Abel, Akuma, Dudley, Elena, Ken, Vega, Yang

4.5-5.5
E.Ryu, Juri, Bison, Oni, Gief

5-5
Adon, Balrog, Viper, Cammy, Cody, Decapre, Fuerte, Gen, Gouken, Hakan, Ibuki, Makoto, Rolento, Rufus, Sagat

5.5-4.5
Ryu, T.hawk

6-4
Dan, Honda, Hugo

Decapre has an unblockable divekick loop on Deejay that you have to guess reversal merely to get out of and he can’t zone her.

Pretty solid list, I think Oni is more of a 5-5 though, and Cammy and Rolento don’t seem like 5-5 to me. I think DeeJay has more issues with those two rather than Oni.

Oh you tickle my pickle Buddha.

I still don’t see the Hugo match being in our favor. Hugo’s mixup is mean, his damage is disgusting. If you manage to escape his train wreck at a life deficit good luck working your way in on a grappler purely with the ground game using DJ. I feel like a lot of Hugo players rate this matchup in their favor purely based on mid screen. Dee Jay can’t just draw a line in the sand against a grappler, you gotta give up space to throw a safe fireball or take a risk closer up. If they just walk you to a corner it’s hard as fuck to escape. Whiff a nervous reversal and get bodied.

A good Hugo player has patience and slowly grinds you down. The impatient ones throw their arms up at the character select screen and give up, trying to jump in every five seconds to get slapped.

I feel similar about Honda. People just have no patience. It’s not like our Guile M/U where Guile can easily guard the space that actually makes his opponent take risks, all Hugo/Honda have to do is walk forward and block until they’re there, then we have to give up space to escape that pressure until we’re in the corner, or try to hold our ground and gamble getting jumped in on when you toss a fireball. We can’t just push them out for free. Against Guile we need to fight our way into the sweep space, then make a quick, solid read to even get inside. One blocked normal or boom and we’re pushed back out. Shit is not like that for Honda or Hugo.

Dan I can agree with, he has all the weaknesses of Shotos in the matchup without any of the redeeming strengths.

Ryu I don’t see in our favor either, people just need to use more than cr.mk and sweep in their neutral game and they need to stop trying to force the fireball game at mid screen when we’re sitting on bar for EX Sobat. Fierce and EX fireball as long pokes at sweep range and neutral jumps work well in this matchup to shut down LK Sobats. Empty jump blows up slide and Ryu’s j.hk is a pain in the ass to AA at certain ranges without upkicks. Focus attack pressure is good and forces you to throw out Sobats to keep them in check which can be baited and punished. His MP does a good job of stuffing LK Sobat. He does good damage and can play a solid game of defense especially when trying to go in on him forces us to break charge so it opens up previously restricted options for him. Yet another M/U where people lack the patience to get the info to make solid reads and sit comfortably on life leads.

I don’t know shit about T. Hawk, fucking online warrior chieftain makes me saltier than an abused, crusty sock.

I don’t see Rose as a 7-3, I see it as a 6-4, you just have to block a ton, her pressure is annoying but it doesn’t usually lead to much and her wakeup is subpar. Against a good Rose (WildArms, Gootecks) this match is usually lame as fuck for me and goes down to time out. Her most potent offensive tool is a throw. Really annoying matchup to learn since basically all her buttons beat all of ours straight up, you just have to be careful and place your shit smartly (god bless you st.lk the only normal that does dick in this matchup’s ground game).

Sakura I’d put at 5-5 but you guys (Froztey, Buddha) seem to hate it. St.hp puts in serious work on those tatsu’s in this matchup. I’d like to fight some stronger ones on PC to get a better handle on the matchup, I don’t see strong Sakuras. Her cr.hp is a pain in the dick otherwise I don’t think her keep out game is particularly strong, it doesn’t let her sit comfortably on a life lead, so if we eat a combo, we have to go in, no big deal. I very well can be and likely am wrong, like I said I haven’t gotten much good Sakura experience, but it’s not one I loathe like Dhalsim.

I’m too tired to argue with the rest and no one is going to read this far into this post anyways. :3

****I’m phone browsing at the minute but Sakura is 6-4 free and my mind will never change on that, she beats him at every spacing other than full screen. And good luck keeping a Sakura at that distance.

The damage she threatens is real, I play a Sakura almost every time I go on SF now and I’ve known the dude for a long time, trained him up and watched him go from 800pp scrub to 3000pp online warrior. He kills me in one touch with bar guaranteed. The match can literally go from DeeJay having a significant life lead from solid play to one bad move that goes into a single jump in combo will full corner carry, into Oki. If I guess wrong on the Oki I’m stunned and the game is over, guaranteed.

The ONLY saving grace in this match-up is him having L.Sobat and a reversal. She beats him up close(As she does everyone else) and beats him at mid with the threat of a jump, there is also a certain sweet spot Sakura can have that will make st.mp and st.hp lose to her jump-in and I have no idea why, possibly not with frame perfect timing or down-charge for up kicks, but holding down charge in a footsie war is hard and makes your footsies shit. DeeJay just can’t even risk a footsie battle, he gets mauled by st.hk, st.hp, cr.mp and her low attacks when not spaced for Sobat. And all of those buttons mentioned lead into ridiculous damage with two bars and a buffer.

Even when zoning it’s useless, unless you somehow manage to keep a Sakura fullscreen(which by the way, isn’t happening) she can just as easy trade fireballs with you all day and stock up her bar for some insane burst damage.

Fuck that match-up, I refuse to believe it’s 5-5, and I’m not even angry it’s unfair, I get pissed that my Sakura friend thinks it 6-4 DeeJay!

FUCK. FUCKING STUPID. ARGH. THROWS STICK

I’d quote you but phone. To me it isn’t as simple as “Oh I ate a combo okay I’ll ‘go in’ and it’ll be fine” it is NOTHING like that. Sakura puts you into knockdown pressure after her combos, first you have to escape her set-up, lose the accumulated stun and regain your spacing. And what are you going to do when “Going in?” threaten sub 100 damage and risk taking 300+? Good fucking job, pat on the back. You need to play well from start to finish, not a single fuck up on anti-airs or RIP. You NEED to make reads with L.Sobat and hope to god somehow you net enough damage to run the fuck away and slow the pace. It sucks that whenever a DeeJay match sucks my only viable thought process is “making L.Sobat reads, and then throw fireballs” this match wouldn’t be an issue if we had a Bison esque fierce button. St.hk being better for instance

The thing is, when playing my friend I typically hold a higher win rate, say 30/22 was around the last tally between us. But I have to play fucking PERFECTLY for every damn round I manage to take and I’m clawing those fucking Ws with every tool available to me. This match is hard and it’s advantage Sakura but I’m not saying it’s unwinnable, it just requires you to properly understand DeeJay’s spacing to the T because your mistakes are punished heavily. Like, ridiculously heavily.

I usually don’t engage in a footsie battle outside of whiff punishing against Sak, what I tend to do is throw a light fireball and use it to start some form of pressure. So fireball - cl.mk - frame trap/tick throw. This seems to be one of the only ways that I can be offensive against Sakura with success, but even then you open yourself up to SO much getting close to her I don’t advise it unless Sak is fresh out of bar.

Whiff punishing into knockdowns is nice and all, but I don’t like it against Sak. I prefer the damage. Damage in this MU is key, create a big enough gap and have yourself in a spot where you can see the desperate jumps coming and hit her with the big M.Upkicks - H.Upkicks wombo combo.

OH I COMPLETELY FORGOT TO MENTION. Knee shot is fucked against her, it whiffs a hell of a lot. Knee shot is near unusable against Sakura, I have zero fucking clue why it whiffs and sometimes it doesn’t. Fisch go test it dickwad.

I have too much to say about this MU. I’ll just answer individual questions as they come, I want to show my thoughts between each characters toolset, pressure, normals and countering them and the footsie war that ensues but it would go on forever. Sakura wins it. DeeJay has to work two times over the average to win without getting hit for a ton of damage.

Ves: Decapre is definitely a pain to zone but it always felt fairly even to me, but I honestly don’t have a ton of matchup experience here so I’ll take your word for it as the DeeJay forums’ resident Decapre player.

Froztey: Yea I could go with Oni being even. I almost put him there I just feel he has a very slight advantage. I don’t think Cammy is too huge of a problem. DeeJay has good options vs her vortex and divekicks and zoning her is reasonably effective. For Rolento I think it’s a bit rough zoning him but he has to be on point with rolling under a fireball to get in that way. Other than that I find that DeeJay has an answer to a lot of what he does. Close mp beats pogo. We have a 3 frame jab to punish the ex overhead. We can U2 roll on block. I dunno feels even to me. Another fun thing in the Sakura match is that any jump in, cr.lp cr.mp xx EX MGU doesn’t work. The MGU get’s blocked. It’s basically impossible to combo her with U2 unless it’s a punish. Sadly I have been picking U1 vs her.

Fisch: I feel like you just overestimate matchups for grapplers. Your argument for Honda and Hugo are basically the same: that they are crazy when they get in and it only takes one read to get in. That’s true, but the thing is that’s true against the whole cast. Having big damage or good mixups doesn’t just alleviate matchup difficulties if you can’t ever get in. DeeJay has a better time keeping them out than a large portion of the cast. They don’t have a natural way through fireballs like most other characters that need to get it. They struggle vs fireballs more than any characters in the game, and DeeJay has a pretty good one. DeeJay just keeps them out. It really is just about that simple. Not to mention if they do get in, they can’t go for cross ups on us with body splashes which is a very useful mixup vs the rest of the cast. The EX upkick buff helps in the Honda match too. It was already in our favor, and now he has to actually respect our wakeup.

As for Ryu, DeeJay just shuts down some of ryu’s best options which are fireballs from 1/2 - 3/4 screen and cr.mk for poking. DeeJay can also dash U1 Ryu from full screen. Ryu doesn’t have the extra options that the other shotos do to make up for that. You say “neutral jumps work well in this matchup to shut down LK Sobats” but that’s true for anyone playing against DeeJay not just Ryu. “Focus attack pressure is good and forces you to throw out Sobats to keep them in check which can be baited and punished” also true for basically the whole cast. “Empty jump blows up slide” another entire cast vs DeeJay tip. J.hk can come in at an angle that makes far mp just whiff right under it, but at those ranges you gotta use fierce. It will at least trade. It just needs good timing. You say that cr.mp blows up sobat which is true, but he’s forced to use a subpar button for pokes. Ryu has to play a gimped style of his game to compete. Definitely DeeJay favored.

Rose is a train wreck. Can’t throw fireballs, can’t approach. No idea how you think it’s less than 7-3 in her favor. Like you said basically every button she has beats all of ours. She can consistently punish lk.sobat and cr.mk with cr.mp. The only good normal in the matchup is cr.mp (not st.lk). You say her wakeup is ass but there’s always the magical backdash. Sure you can OS it on her wakeup with a meaty jumpin OS slide, but once they figure it out, they just block the jumpin and mash backdash after that and DeeJay can’t do shit. Hands down one of DeeJay’s worst matches.

Don’t bother it’s all right anyway :sunglasses:

air to airing sak helps a ton. Try nj.lk/mk instead of trying to ground AA her without charge.

How do I handle Gouken? Ran into a gimmick based one and he got me pretty good. I need to study up on the frame data, I don’t know how to deal with his flip at all, I decided to start using air-to-airs and they worked to some effect. He used the divekick so frequently it made me question if he was good or just abusing a gimmick, I think it’s the latter as we never actually engaged anywhere but full-screen throwing fireballs or right in my face after full-screen flip. Signs of weak play, I should go and study the match-up. Someone gimme some tips, I wanna learn this one it doesn’t actually seem that bad on paper I just need to learn how to deal with flips.

Since the match is often a fireball war, I find I usually have down charge. If they are flipping a lot, upkicks is the way to go. You have to delay upkick to beat the divekick. Also, If he does the armored grab shit, you get punished for using lk.upkicks, but at the same time, light is the easiest to time to beat divekicks. EX is always going to work if you have the late timing down. The flip into sweep is punishable. I don’t know how to dodge the flip grab. I thought you could crouch it until my buddy who plays gouken said you can’t. Just anti air I guess. Maybe you can dash out or neutral jump air to air. His ex demon flip is pretty much a get out of jail free card.

Pick ultra 1. If they’re dumb enough to charge a fireball when you have it, dash U1 easy. They like to use cr.mp fireball the same way ryu’s use cr.mk fireball. It’s not a true block string. You can U1 or ex sobat through.

When applying the legendary DJ vortex, make sure to throw in some empty jump grabs to beat those counters.

His fireballs are the easiest to slide under. They are pretty high up and always the same speed. Use that to your advantage.

When trying to EX sobat fireballs in netrual, it’s a pretty tight window since he has good recovery. If you do it too early the invincibility runs out and you get nailed with a fireball, too late and he blocks. Utilize charge buffering. The idea that you can do downback, forward, downback + kicks to get EX sobat. Usually people use this to charge fireballs but it works good with ex sobat because DJ walks forward a bit before activating the move, which extends the range a bit. Useful in all fireball matchups but especially gouken.

Yeah, I was using upkicks and my timing was way off, he was hitting me out of it again and again. The only way I can think of to properly cover all of Gouken’s options is to see the flip coming and jump forward air-to-air, most Gouken’s won’t have started the armour ender if you jump forward and hit him out of it early. The ONLY reason I lost was due to that damn flip, everything else I had completely covered. EX Sobat isn’t so great against Gouken, I just prefer sliding under fireballs and taking space, it’s a patient MU. I feel you on empty jump grabs, they work wonders.

Considering Gouken is a walking sweep button he’s pretty easy to beat in neutral, I just need to nail that flip counter down properly because I’m free to flip grabs and divekicks as of right now which is weird because I have no issues vs. Akuma.

Ficsh doesn’t like the Dudley match up because he sucks also. Getgudscrub.

We should probably get a Google doc up and running if we’re making a “new” match-up thread. Make it open for public editing and I’ll contribute to it here and there.

Revised Edition -

7-3
Guile, Rose

6.5-3.5
Chun-Li, Yun, Sakura, Decapre

6-4
Gen, Ken, Vega, Akuma, Cammy, Seth, Fei Long, Poison, Rolento, Rufus

5.5-4.5
Evil Ryu, Zangief, Abel, Guy, Ibuki, Fuerte, Dudley

5-5
Bison, Adon, Makoto, Cody, Hakan, Honda, Juri, Balrog, Oni

4.5-5.5
Yang, Ryu, Hugo, Sagat

4-6
T.Hawk, Dan, C.Viper

No Fucking Idea - Blanka, Dhalsim, Gouken, Elena

I’m sure some of my picks have minds boggled. Coughvipercough.

dat list cray

I like to be quite lenient with DeeJay, my mind usually over-exaggerates how bad he actually is and I think a lot of his bad MUs changed by 0.5 or more in 1.04, that reveral and L.Sobat being back works wonders.

Ones I heavily disagree with: Rolento Rufus Guy Sim Blanka

I disagree with some others but those are the most egregious.