An in-depth analysis of the infamous character Cinder, from the game Killer Instinct. KI is well known to be a glitch-infested turtle game, but Cinder breaks the game completely by just how obscenely powerful he is, and how much superior he is compared to everyone else. Even Eyedol would be scared of this…
Enjoy! And if possible, please comment on the actual YouTube page as well - this will most likely help newbies AVOID the dark path in KI, and lose respect for scrubby players who only abuse 24/7. It’s bad enough that all the KI scenes that ever existed fell victim to abusive players, now Zbattle is headin down that path, too… =/
imo most broken character ever is Rambo from Street Fighter IV
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yes, THAT sfiv
Easily the most broken game I have ever played. So funny though, like Marvel, everything is so broken that it balances itself out in its own weird way.
Tiers:
Rambo Tier:
Ranboo, Stallong
Top Tier
Everybody else
High level tactics include Fireball->Special cancels (can FB xx FB or any other special to fake fireball punish), Chain Throws (lol), and anything OTG becomes its own infinite.
LOL @ SFIV. Anyway, yeah… KI is a very broken game, and Cinder by far is what breaks it the most, followed by Eyedol and Orchid. SaBr3 was right… KI is a game that can be easily dominated by BS!! It’s a game that pretty much defeats the purpose of skill, because as good as you get, some unskilled noob out there will always be able to beat you by exploitin the most broken aspects of the game.
I am goin to make a comprehensive Tier List explanation video about KI, to explain exactly why all the characters are where they are in the tier list, and what makes certain character so broken or superior to others, etc.
For sure! It really is about time that everyone knows just how silly of a game KI is. All I can really say is that bs > skill in KI. The only game that seems more broken so far is that SFIV eczangief posted, LOL.
Also, this is very reason why KI died in the late 1990s, and its popularity didn’t last very long. All the good players realized that this game can be dominated easily by BS, and that you didn’t need skill anymore to win. Just find a decent noob tactic, or a really harsh glitch, and you’re set. Pretty much Eyedol’s defense / club swing, Orchid’s j.fk (used in combination with fireballs and jumpin away 24/7, and s.fp), and all of Cinder’s bs in the video make KI a very bad game for real competitive play. It just lets noobs with only a few months’ experience suddenly gain “expert status”, by beatin highly skilled players with somethin that is just incredibly broken, and will give any scrub a major ego boost. Some big-time abuser-scrubs are JAG, Jinkaz and NULL. Bet you will never see a player crappier than either of them, even if you barely know a thing about KI!
I have always hated Killer Instinct. But I have a friend who always want me to play games he likes, just so he can say he beat me. You know, to use me as a training dummy. Anyway, I showed him. Utilizing my nearly 12 year old technique for winning any Killer Instinct match, I jumped the entire match. That stopped him from hitting me with any combo starters. All I did was jump, poke, and ran away the entire match every match. It was enough to beat him. He practiced the game like everyday for a month learning his ultra combos. And I nullified all of it by just jumping the entire match. LOL. I beat him like 10 games in a row.
How much do you really know about KI, lol? That game is incredibly broken, and is easily dominated by moves with incredible priority, unblockables, and severe glitches. Have you ever played KI competitively? You will notice some of the B.S. that can easily dominate the game.
Here’s a good example of how B.S. easily dominates KI.
Bladerunne is player 1, NULL is player 2.
Bladerunne is actually a fairly experienced player, and pretty challengin. He’s actually a good player (despite the screw-ups he does at times)! NULL on the other hand is some scrub who hasn’t been playin for half as long as blade, and he doesn’t even have a quarter of the skill Bladerunne has. You can tell by the way NULL plays compared to Bladerunne. However, NULL has found out how to abuse Orchid’s j.fk, a move with extraordinarily high priority in KI. It can even hit you twice if he lands it just right, leadin to very easy dizzies. Orchid already is 2nd place in tiers after Cinder; she owns with great normals (and the single best normal, j.fk), the best range in the game, good reset ability and a nice handful of specials with good stoppin power, plus nice unbreakables, and even an unblockable (negative edge fp tiger on wakeup). Now, watch how NULL completely defeats most attacks that Bladerunne tries merely with that one move, j.fk. And in combination with runnin away, fireballs and lettin the timer run out, NULL is really defeatin the purpose of turtlin, close-quarters play and pretty much breaks the game in general. Anyone with half a brain can notice this. This move is counterable, yes… but only with certain attacks, and if timed perfectly. If the j.fk comes out just slightly before the opponent’s attack does, j.fk’s priority cancels out the other move entirely. Same thing if the opponent tries to counter it too early.
Here’s one example of Cinder:
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This is pretty much the “style” of your average Cinder noob, which is pretty much repeatin the same braindead game-breakin tactics.
Now take a look at how Jinkaz (player 1) plays when he uses Cinder (at about 6 minutes into the video). You can tell by the way he uses his other characters that in fact, he is average in skill. However, he HAS practiced tons with Cinder’s BS! Take a look for yourself, it’s really stupid:
Pretty much anyone who ever was half-skilled at KI could tell that both Jinkaz and Massakre are not very good, and Jinkaz truly only gains his wins by exploitin Cinder completely (he does this whenever he has to face a skilled player he knows he can’t beat normally; he went “easy” on Massakre).
Does KI still seem like a “not so bad game” to you? I thought my Cinder video would’ve been enough to convince anybody, but I guess I have to show you what really bad players are actually like. If you wanna see what really good players are like, look at these:
Rofl, misread your post. This is what happens when I respond to posts at 4am. DX
Yes, KI under normal conditions is a game of “turtle instincts”. However, I don’t think gameplay based on turtlin necessarily makes the game bad. It is merely the BS that makes it crap.
How would you allow players to play cinder? All the things, imo that make him great would still be available.
Good resets
Good crosses
Good normals
Good specials
Even if you didnt allow people to use the unblockables and the “dizzy glitch”, he still seems like he would be one of the better characters. He was just built to wreck it seems. Not to mention if ban his unblockables, why should any other character get to use theirs? You should either a. deal with him or b. drop the game.
Cinder can still be used fairly. His resets make him better than the rest in the offensive department, yes - however, his normals are not as good as Orchid’s, even though they’re among the best in the game. Orchid was actually BETTER than Cinder in the arcade version. But in SNES, Cinder got beefed up because his air-crossover became easier to maneuver, and had a glitchy hitbox that could be used to turn the air torpedo/crossover into an unblockable, all of which any noob can practice and learn how to abuse with relative ease. Like my video explains, you had to be WAY MORE PRECISE in the arcade version to actually be really scary with the air crossover, and it wasn’t as good in arcade as in SNES. Also, Cinder still carried pretty much almost all of his glitches from arcade into SNES, so that’s what gives him the leadin edge vs Orchid… that and his air-crossover bs. But Cinder’s unblockable (intiated after glitchy fp ground torpedo) isn’t so bad, and can be predicted/seen by a skilled player, except when usin Spinal, who is COMPLETELY DEFENSELESS against it. Other characters have terrible unblockables:
Glacius can do a late triple-juggle which will be unblockable, and if repeated 3 times in a row, will kill a whole lifebar.
Fulgore’s Slide-Uppercut transition is unblockable, and can be used to set up a mid-close range mind game.
Riptor’s firebreath!!! Against most characters, it can be spammed over and over again, either forcin the opponent to take the hit, or do a wakeup, leavin himself open for an air-combo, which will probably dizzy him in the end. Probably the scariest unblockable in the game (Glacius’ is only 2nd scariest because he needs a combo breaker to be able to do it first).
Riptor’s shadow fireball, if timed correctly at close range (but you have to be at the right distance as well), will be unblockable, and will attack an opponent even durin wakeup. This can easily dizzy an opponent, because the shadow fireball has the “super-hit” property to it.
Orchid’s negative edge (press-release) fp tiger is also unblockable, and can lead to a mindgame similar to, but not as useful as, Fulgore’s.
Certain timed jumps can be unblockable, and Glacius is especially vunerable to unblockable jump attacks from behind when recoverin. The opponent can just get behind him durin his wakeup, or merely time his jump just right so it hits Glacius from the back of his head. This is ONLY durin wakeup however.
In certain instances, very precisely timed jumps can be unblockable (back of head effect), but this is not very reliable, as it is both difficult to get down consistently, and works differently dependin on the character.
Honestly, usin a glitch once in a while isn’t so bad - some glitches are actually useful and add more depth to the gameplay - but the really extreme ones should have restrictions on them, like no more than once per match, or even altogether bannin! Cinder can still be used fairly. I have seen and appreciated skillful Cinder players who don’t have to play “JAG style” to win.
To conclude, if used fairly, Cinder will still have an advantage, yes. However, it will still be very much possible to beat a Cinder player in a completely skillful match, and he won’t get any “easy wins” unless he’s facin a character who is naturally already very weak against Cinder.
…which comes to explain another thing - KI is full of counter-character set-ups. Example: Riptor pwns TJ Combo, Orchid destroys Jago, Spinal can effectively counter Glacius, etc…
Why would you play the snes version, knowing that it has so many problems? Arcade version is emulated, why not play exclusive on that version? My boy picked up a KI arcade cab for like $600, maybe a good investment for you?
Because the arcade version is in fact, more broken than SNES. SNES wasn’t as buggy, had the gameplay refined, and didn’t have Cinder’s infinite. The only thing that was worse in SNES than arcade was that Cinder’s air-torpedo/crossover bs was improved. Arcade was in general a bit more unbalanced, and some characters were even less useful than in SNES. The only characters that were truly weakened in SNES were Sabrewulf and Spinal, the rest remained the same or improved. SNES has more consistent gameplay, so it wins in the fightin department; arcade was more of the eye-candy with bigger combos.
Plus, nobody plays the KI arcade version online, because not everyone has good enough internet or a good enough computer to do so. Playin arcade online was very laggy for me, and desynched every 2 matches or so.
The only unblockable that didn’t exist in arcade was pretty much Fulgore’s. And even then, Fulgore always remained as the 2nd worst character in the game. KI snes is pretty much the improved version of KI, if you do not include Cinder. And if Cinder’s glitches were banned in SNES, then Orchid would be #1 in the tier list.
