Indeed. Elena’s higher than both Hugo and Remy, clean… Perhaps even higher than Alex, Ibuki, and Q…TBH, I put her on par with Urien and Ryu more times than not…
Yun/Chun/Mak/Akuma/Ken is top 5.
Then Yang/Duds/Urien/Ryu
Then Elena/Oro/Alex/Q/Ibuki
Then Hugo/Remy/Tweleve/Sean…
And I don’t know enough about Necro to have an opinion as to where to place him… Elena solid low? GTFO… My tiers might be questionable… but Elena sure as hell ain’t low.
No. Definitely not. The fact that a certain character is able to do well is several different styles is why he is above others, that is, a sign of imbalance. ST is not a good game because Balrog can rush down, turtle well and still have great comeback potential: it is good despite that. If the top tier was less versatile, the game would be more balanced. The same applies to MvC2.
The only thing I’d see that doing is making the game utterly boring. Part of the fun in it is learning to overcome those versatile characters with yours and develop your character as being versatile in itself.
Why can’t it be a mixture of both? Why can’t it a game with a balanced roster AND play styles? Why should we ignore (in a 2D fighter) 40+ characters in the game, just because the top tier have several varied play styles? And why should we ignore the fact that MvC3 (not that I’m saying that game is the most balanced) has a lot of weak play styles in comparison to MvC2, just because the character balance is better?
I think we should consider both.
Couldn’t agree more.
Nobody wants balance as much as they want MORE CHARACTERS, I HATE YOU CAPCOM YOU DON’T LIKE KARIN AS MUCH AS ME?!
That’s not my word on it… I want Alex and Sodom in 1 game finally for powerbomb-offs. Karin, was really boring. No you didn’t play her competitively, lest you would’ve gotten juggled so hard and not enjoyed how low tier she was, so stop that. School girl fetishes. Girl Ken to Girl Ryu’s Sakura, also rich, blonde…
Marvel 2 had a ridiculous amount of characters from pulling them from every previous Vs game they did. So after you ask for 50 characters, you can’t also ask for some magical balance, and definitely not among every character in the game. And of course not, many years after the development teams have long moved on.
Elena is not that technical, loses a lot of matchups & I actually like playing Elena, and her using momentum and some baits to never stay in one spot. But she can get shut down hard, has no big punishes without loads of meter, few cancellable pokes of any use, all able to be parried both high and low. Uphill battle. Others call her the “jungle princess.”
This is a false dichotomy. A better ST would be very similar to the current one and HDR, but with more characters (unlike HDR) and more balanced strengths and weaknesses in all characters. Not only top tiers. Same applies to MvC2 and all other games. The good tools from better characters come at the undeniable expense of weaker characters. For instance: make Dhalsim for “fun” by making his teleport better and you make it extremely frustrating for, say, Zangief. Characters need some weakness, not just some inherent engine mechanic such as ambiguous/too fast cross-ups, block bar, etc, that everyone should follow. The weakness gives the player the thrill of avoiding the situations which are dangerous to him, and adds a further mind game in the decisions he must take that sacrifice damage (on himself) or potential damage (on the enemy) for position.
Edit: not a reply to the message above.
Only one mention of Garou in this entire thread.
It’s a very balanced game, even though Kevin is clearly the best character. He is far from broken.
This line of thinking is why Capcom games have been getting worse and worse. Games are more enjoyable when characters have versatility are not all one dimensional archetypes. The fact ST Rog had that versatility as well as other members of the cast is why games like ST, GGXX, VS, KoF, etc. are such fun games. Capcom has followed your line of thinking and SF4 needed 4 versions. Games with a cast of strong characters is way more fun than having a half assed roster of “balanced” (read as: underpowered and no fun) characters.
I’m suprised the Darkstalkers method of balancing never gets mentioned only one way and that is the HF method where everyone is the same.
Son, almost everyone on that game is mashing forward forward when they aren’t blocking. I think the only character to ever zone me out was snugglegun’s hsien ko, and even then, he just throws projectiles for meter and to cover himself. When he is done he is on your ass again.
Speaking of Darkstalkers, if we’re now talking about “number of viable playstyles”, Hunter might have the edge over Savior in that regard. You’ve got zoning-heavy characters like Pyron and Huitzil, Raptor is more of a Dhalsim-type character than the rushdown character he is in Savior, etc.
Pyron is more of mix up character than a zoner in hunter even though that alien is a good zoner.
The answer to balance is to give every character a wide variety of real options that will allow them to be played in at least two different playstyles and have answers to multiple scenarios.
The Capcom answer is to reduce options and increase health.
Let me see: everyone has easy reversals in SF4. The opposite of what I advise for. Everyone has easy ways about projectiles. Not what I advise. Everyone has an attack suited for aerial cross-ups. Not what I like. Everyone has some good anti-air, everyone has access to focus attack, some safe invulnerable EX attack or a special that you can FADC, etc, etc.
ST has great stuff in the form of characters with bad anti-airs, but good footsies. Bad projectiles, but a strong rush-down game. Good zoning, but mediocre-to-poor throw range. A few characters with no easy ways around projectiles, but guaranteed damage in close range. A grappler with good footsies and a grappler with anti-airs and a dive. The ones who are a bit different are the top tiers. They are not that strong, but noticeably strong. If you do not understand why giving a character ways around tactics and situations equals denying others access to that tactic, I just say you need to learn about the games you are talking about. I feel you have little experience with games like CE, HF, ST and FFS, where you need to take the right decisions to win all the time, not just stablish amiguous situations and confirm damage when things work fine.
In a word, no.
is trapping in mvc3? or keepaway? without whiffing for meter, and pushblock being so good, it’s pretty much made the game all about TOD’s. Or am I missing something?
I’m not going to lie… I fucking hate MvC3 in all forms… but it’s Capcom’s best fighting game out right now when stacked against Super Slow Fighter 4 and Timeout Fighter X Nobody Cares…
It’s got good balance, versatile gameplay, gimmicks and strategies…
I just hate that I get hit by shit, and I don’t know what I get hit by… I watch top level players, and they look at the screen with the same dumb look I have when I stare at that shit… like, what the fuck just hit me?
I can watch it all fucking day… especially Chris G and Champ, as they’re super entertaining… but you wont catch me touching a controller plugged into a console when that game is running.
Mvc2 is still the shit tough
Vampire Savior, Arcana Heart 2.6, Arcana Heart 3.1