Im actually really surprised that capcom never gave Fei Long a counter. That would actually improve him vastly as far as rushdown/turtle ratio and almost negates his need for a boost in damage. Hear me out, he is supposed to be a Bruce Lee clone but has no wing chun “sticky hands” at the very least make it high mid only where you eat lows. Im not saying it has to do a lot of damage but just be a way for him to bring momentum back into his favor when he is getting pinned down by his harder matchups. Personally that would make a lot more sense especially now that he has a counter ultra on top of that. Or to be even more fair this “counter” should activate what his command throw does now since its pretty much useless anyway.
It really is a shame that capcom has taken such a relaxed method of development with some of its characters especially on the lower end of the character rankings. Considering they added the 3S characters Fei Long could have used Yangs old short, forward, roundhouse target combo to great effect. On top of also making him a better representation of the person they are trying to clone him as. In retrospect Fei Long should definatly have a couple of target combos including punches and kicks that would be similar to bros from 3S.
What will help Fei very much is if Light flame kick was safe (Or at least much safer) on block.
It would help his ground game considerably because it will keep pressure on opponents (Especially in the corner).
However, Dimps (This is who I blame) decides to add one hour recovery all DP’s when you land. It’s SO FUCKING STUPID.
I mean seriously, what is going through their head? Have they even played a street fighter game before?
I believe someone mentioned Makoto lacking a decent DP which is what Fei has over her. Since Fei’s DP is so unsafe, it doesn’t even matter. His standing meaty HP works better for dealing with opponents in the air than his own Flame Kick. How ridiculous is that?
What will help Fei very much is if Light flame kick was safe (Or at least much safer) on block.
It would help his ground game considerably because it will keep pressure on opponents (Especially in the corner).
However, Dimps (This is who I blame) decides to add one hour recovery all DP’s when you land. It’s SO FUCKING STUPID.
I mean seriously, what is going through their head? Have they even played a street fighter game before?
I believe someone mentioned Makoto lacking a decent DP which is what Fei has over her. Since Fei’s DP is so unsafe, it doesn’t even matter. ** His standing meaty HP works better for dealing with opponents in the air than his own Flame Kick. How ridiculous is that?[/**QUOTE]
Its SF4, these guys handle Fei worst then sirlin ever did in HDR lol.
You know… I’ve never had a problem with Flame Kick. Just do it later than you do regular DPs and it works fine.
If you put me in charge of Fei and wanted me to give him REALISTIC buffs… here is all I would do:
LK chickenwing now gives the same frames as HK on hit / block but take away it’s strike invincibility to compensate. Instead just give it throw invuln from frame 1. HK chickenwing should basically just be the current EX Chickenwing. EX Chickenwing would have a really low hitbox so you could use it to get in on characters like Balrog that just sit and crouch all day.
Tenshin throw invincibile. EX Tenshin Strike Invincible. Give it longer when it connects to combo after.
First hit of Rekkas -2 on block at closest range.
Ultra 1 has vacuum effect on hit ground or air.
Flame kick has a bigger hitbox for anti air. LK Version has no “recovery hop” and pushes out more. It’s not invicible till active frames so it shouldn’t matter anyway as Meaties would stuff it.
cr.MK Special Cancelable.
What do you guys think?
I didn’t go crazy and say COMBO AFTER OVERHEAD! or… EX REKKAS WALL BOUNCE. Just buffs I think he NEEDS to moves that feel incomplete.
Dimps is not responsible at ALL for the balance of SF4. That’s like blaming Toyota because the guy that crashed into you was driving a Corolla. They just made the engine. Capcom used it to create the product you’re playing.
If you want DPs to be safe, FADC them. It will cost you two meter. All DPs in this game are unsafe on block unless you FADC them. It’s a fact that will not change with SSF4, nor should it.
If Bison can win in this game, then so can Fei. They both have few setups for their ultra, and they both have pressure moves and good footsies normals. Bison has no comeback potential, but he can still win every matchup in the game.
Evo, I’ve see your suggested buff list for Fei back before Super was announced and there was that balance discussion thread. I hope you’ve come to realize how incredibly unbalanced the changes in that list would be.
I’m not opposed to giving him a U1 that works, or other sensible buffs. But people need to be rational with their suggestions.
^ I catch your drift, but I don’t think he’s equal to Bison. Bison has much easier combos and far better EX moves. They are really close though.
A useful Ultra is a must though… That’s what really kills him IMO. Even if it means just getting the 3-hit juggle, it needs SOMETHING. (and it should be useful against FBs too, I mean, c’mon! It’s an ultra!)
If I were to tweak his normals, it would be minor… reduce recovery on far HP, get rid of the silly pushback on c.jab, reduce recovery on c.mk so you could use it as a meaty, change tenshin to not overlap with flamekick, fix his dash, give him his old f+RH stepkick, get rid of the stupid far s.HP after tenshin bug, reduce recovery on c.HP a couple frames, etc.
Mabye give EX rekka armour? All hits of CW break armour? EX Tenshin has armour? I feel his EX moves are seriously lacking… the only one that is notably useful is the EX CW, and only against projectiles. EX Tenshin is only useful if it follows a blocked standing jab.
Honestly? I love cr.MK, but I find myself using cr.MP more. cr.MP > cr.MP xx rekkas would be fun as shit. Or cr.LK, cr.LP, st.LP > cr.MP xx rekkas. A man can dream.
Just on flame kick… it is the least safe DP move in the game. Gen has the most -frames on block but you can fake them out with an extra kick to float, which works more often than you’d think. Cammy’s LK cannon spike has more -frames than Fei on block, but all versions push back, which makes them quite good. The MK and HK versions have less, for the record.
The only character who has comparable -frames on block is Akuma, who has a little less recovery on the light DP, and a little more on the heavy DP. Every other character including fucking Dan has in excess of 10 less recovery frames than Fei. That’s stupid.
It’s a DP – it’s not meant to be safe. But it’s also not meant to be so retardedly easy to punish that it’s virtually worthless.
And not to mention, the hitbox is so weird on it that you need to WANT to get hit by it to get hit by it.
Ken to me feels right in this game, he’s balanced with the rest of the cast. The biggest BS that Ryu got was a faster recovering fireball. That was the first thing I noticed. I was thinking to myself “for some reason that badly timed fireball wasn’t badly timed”. They made Ryu’s zoning game stupid easy. After i went back to playing him in other games I started to notice what just a few frames taken off the fireball recovery does.
As for Fei, other than improving the properties of his ultra, I’d say make his CW go through all fireballs and be his old speed (HK CW needs to be restored to the old one).
That with a few nerfs to the top tier is enough to make him competitive with the rest of the cast for SSF4 I hope.
ALL fei needs is ultra 1 to work after flame kick fadc. he has every tool to win that he needs…except a way to land the ultra outside of focus or j.rh. even akuma has anti air demon setups, and can use demon to punish some things (like blanka ball). i like fei’s tools so much, its just that once you get behind, there’s no ultra to bail you out if you guess right. you have to guess right multiple times. that gets too hard at the higher level of play.
but fei is awesome. awesome super and can land it SO many ways. c.mp ch, c.mp, rekkas is an awesome poking tool, c.fp is great priority. ex flamekick hurts like hell if somebody tries to jump in. and its okay that flamekick doesn’t work against the crossover, we can’t all be ryu. rekkas are VERY safe and can provide good pressure through chip damage. chicken wing stops some people’s abusable shit. (like ryu spamming fireball, or boxer doing charge punch mixups) Tenshin isn’t good…but since when the hell did fei have a command grab like yun? Its only meant to be landed once a blue moon, not anything you can or would try to mixup off of. (something along the lines of OMG he actually did that stupid move!@!!)
point is, he has freaking everything but a damn ultra worth something. if they fix that ONE thing…he’s done justice.
btw, i love crossover mk, s.mp, c.mk xx super. its like almost a win combo.
real problem is that fei is the only rushdown character in this game without any safe moves that are non dependant on spacing or the opponent standing or crouching. thats why all the matchups feel like work.
fei and vega would be the only 2 without safe offense, and vega never wants to stay in close anyway because he is designed around poking and playing keep away. rekkas, up to the second rep, need to be safe without figuring distance requirements
I’m pretty sure characters like cammy gets a free spiral arrow on hit, honda gets a headbutt on hit, ryu can EX hado (same with the other shotos), gief can EX green hand, those are the ones i can think of on the top of my head, its silly that his BnB combos causes him to lose momentum unless you don’t end a combo with a blanka ball.
i only keep saying ex rekkas should wall bounce cuz i honestly think that that’s exactly if anything, what capcom gave him. I’m also suprise there’s not a single video of anyone doing an ex rekka, but eh.
Counter ultra is indeed a help to fei, as now when i play i try to find ways a counter would work, not to mention the mental game it forces on the other player. However it’s just that another ultra is preffered.
Or if they actually fixed his ultra 1 the something other then counter would be non existent, as I would say those two ultras give his playstlye alot of range.
Also I hope they fix common sense things on him, which I have no idea if theyll fix.
forward hk should be changed to something with a use.
chicken wings should have a lower hitbox, so if it hits crouching characters it doesnt go over.
fk into chickenwing should have 3 hits on all characters.
Ultra 1 should suck in after 1st hit.
Alot of other changes could be mentioned but they are of a player’s preference. However the above mentioned 4 NEED to be changed, well maybe not so much #1 but I wouldnt want any character to have to deal with those kind of problems.
THOSE, people are the changes that need to be done for fei that would not break him.
Yes, I’m aware of that. The thing is that’s part of the reason why this game is a turtle fest. It’s a bad design choice IMO. The more unsafe moves are in the game the more likely someone will be afraid to go on the offense. It’s not like Medium and Fierce versions of DP’s were safe, so why add massive recovery to those? Plus you don’t build super meter fast enough, so if you don’t have the 2 bars of EX meter, what then? Sure you may say; “If you don’t have 2 meters then simply don’t DP!” However that’s what causes Fei to suffer. His Light Flame Kick is a huge part of Fei’s design to keep opponents afraid (Along with safe CW, and Rekkas). It was this way since ST.
Ryu, and Sagat could afford to not have safe DP’s because their ground game doesn’t have to revolve around it.
