Man, if it was a command grab, we’d still have the same super anyway so our choices would be awesome 
Weren’t Cammy and Fei Long the two characters voted into the console version by fans? Maybe Capcom didn’t want them and are having their revenge :lol:
I feel sorry for Fei if his first ultra hasn’t been fixed, Cammy’s first ultra is at least decent.
Dragging this from the counter ultra thread to keep it from being swallowed up…
I personally love the idea, and would gladly use it. Maybe not as much as a buffed Rekkashingeki, but it’d be viable.
Actually, that would not be broken at all and would IMO used in conjunction with a fast usable motion (or pre-motion that does not take away ultra bar if not activated after pre-motion) shut down a whole lot of the juggle > ultra nonsense that never should have been in the game in the first place.
An ultra that shuts down all easy set-up ultras for the duration of a match? Sign me up. SF4 would be so much better balanced overall if ultras were not a huge factor.
I feel like Capcom is going to turn his Ultra into a grab a la Tenshin.
One gripe I have with the actual animation is the lack of fluidity of it. It seems very stoic: stance, hit, you can clearly see Fei still in stance and then it breaks into ultra. At least make Fei move out of the way from the move to go into the leg hit disarm.
his new ultra is rediculous bullshit --
Wont help me play him better at all, the only thing going for it in my eyes is the fact it looks awesome --
Well I havent seen a gameplay vid of him using it yet, but it better do like raginng demon damage if anything --
scratch that, just watched gameplay of him, this is bullshit --
Makes me feel like Imma pick up Guy if his buffs dont involve his first ultra and a whole lot of other crap
i think you guys are losing faith way too early. how do we know it dosent have like 0 frame startup? and im sure certain moves means not fireballs. give it a chance before you write it off. what if it stuffs jump ins?
i havent taken the time to read all 40+ posts since we found that it was in fact a counter, but can we at least learn more about it before rioting in the streets
conditions for good-if it has 0 frame startup, and fei is all hit box, and is only beaten by throws and projectiles, and if active and recovery fames are close to the same
riot situation-5+frame startup, 10+frame recovery, loses to everything
First Frame counters are standard. I play Hakumen in Blazblue. Yes they are ridiculously different games, that it’d make much difference. In fact, everything starts up slower in Blazblue. The fastest moves in Blazblue have 5 frame start-ups (Hakumen’s standing jab, for instance.)
Hakumen has a lot of normal counter moves. Most of them counter on the first frame. They counter everything but throws. Hakumen also has a Super Counter as well. It is active for 13 frames and activates on the first frame. HIs counters are good, but hardly used in high level play. You’ll see his normal counters used mroe often because they don’t use meter, but even then, you’ll get about one or two successful counters a match. His super is never used. He also has another super called Shippu, that can be cancelled into and has some nice practical setups. Shippu is used a fair amount. out of every 30 matches in BB I land Yukikaze once. OUt of every 30 matches, I’ll land Shippu almost every game.
Counters, by design, are impractical. I’m surprised Devs still haven’t learned this lesson yet.
point taken, but what im saying is give it a chance to see how it functions in this game before we go shooting it down. if they do it right, i think it can really add to the pressure game. ie more rushdown options for fear of being ultra countered trying to counter poke or reversal out of the pressure. hell, if they fixed ultra 1, anything more would be icing
BTW, ive seen your av enough. and now we shall share
Not to be rude, but what makes you think they will get it right this time?
more time to playtest. last time (with vanilla SF4), they just kinda tossed him in because of the fan poll. knowing whats wrong (ultra not hit confirming itself etc), and having everything stay the same about it would be pretty lazy/stupid. the fact that they have revised every version of sf since the origional lets me know that they pay attention to what works or does not work. thats not to say that they dont create new problems or whatever when they try to fix things, but at least i know it will be different
I meant in regards to counters. If they fix feis first ultra the second will automatically be inferior.
Not really. If they fix the second without fixing the first, the first will be inferior. His first ultra is awful as-is. If they fixed both, you could pick ultra depending on the situation. Almost like counterpicking ultras, to a point.
If you’re playing a j.HP-happy Seth, go with the counter ultra. Getting in close is Fei’s biggest weakness, so mitigating the zoning tools with a big fuckoff punch to the chest would be excellent. Making Seth scared to use his best weapon would even things out quite a bit. Depending on whether it works against armour breakers (we know it doesn’t work against throws), you could argue that it’d be super useful against the likes of Blanka and Honda as well, who are hard to punish as-is, and Balrog, who you can often see coming a mile away with tons of armour break moves.
If you’re playing someone who will let you get in close, though – like Abel – you would pick the first ultra. It’d have juggle capabilities and lend itself to a more aggressive style of play and allow you to get in his face and try mixup into DP xx FADC HK.CW ultra. With overhead seemingly able to combo much more easily now, you’d be well-served by some serious rushdown.
Of course all that is predicated on the idea that they implement the fixes we want. Otherwise we’ll just pick the first ultra and do the same old broken shit as before. The scary thing is that both ultras are viable if implemented correctly – Capcom just needs to want to fix them.
It honestly would not be hard to balance the ultras at all and make them both work really easily. Make the first hit of Fei’s first super GROUND THEM like bison’s. There’s programming ALREADY IN THE GAME for this mechanic. It confuses as to why only Bison got it.
The second ultra wouldn’t be hard to change. Keep the same start up, same animation. Just give him a command grab “whiff” animation where he stumbles. Otherwise if they’re in range it just goes straight into leg kick animation. It wouldn’t be anything big or crazy to change honestly.
As far as matchups I’d use a counter ultra in…I really don’t even know if I’d use it vs anyone. Good Seth’s and Sim’s bait the shit out of people’s DPs with a person expecting their jump back j.HP. Dhalsim could jump back, do nothing, we go for counter ultra and then he yoga shangrilas. Seth could just land and full screen ultra punish. Blanka can whiff ball in front of us and then punish and honda probably just won’t headbutt from full screen. What honda does this anyway? Would be good to counter butt slam but I don’t think having an ultra that counters one characters move really counts for much.
Disagree on the first ultra… don’t need the grounding thing. Everything you want it to do can be done by tweaking the vertical hitboxes, or adjusting the vertical motion of the odd punches on hit. Unless you’re talking about catching someone out of the air, which I don’t think the ultra should do, personally. I think that would make it too good. Bison’s ultra can’t juggle far as I know but, this one can. Bison compensates by having a pseudo anti-air option. You can’t have it both ways IMO.
On the second… why not go with the idea I posted? It’s a counter AND a command grab in one: you’d get to choose which one you want. Depending on how much recovery time is on the counter ultra is now, it could make it a much more versatile option. No flash on startup, hit the counter for full damage, or initiate the command grab during the counter motion for a reduced total. It could be used for offense AND counter-offense that way.
Of course it won’t happen that way because Fei would have legit capabilities for the first time in forever, so whatevs.
I’m not sure what you mean on the first one. It’d be less work to just make it ground on air hit and continue into the rest than changing hit boxes and you’d get to enjoy the cinematic. I don’t care if the damage is the same as a 3 hit juggle. Bison’s ultra does juggle. Or atleast if you do j.MP x2 > ultra it will snag them out of the air, force them to stand and then do full ultra. Works if his ultra hits them out of the air too so in essence it does juggle.
Your idea on the second is great but capcom is probably too lazy for that. Although I would prefer it for sure.
This could help matchups against character who don’t have fireballs.
Unfortunately, that’s fucking stupid because Fei’s worst two matchups are against Sagat and Zangief. Gief doesn’t throw out any EX greenhands but Fei still can’t attack because he will be SPD’d, and Sagat can’t TK loop but can still combo into ultra off of a guessed TU and Fei still can’t approach, especially with the fireball invuln removal on his EX CW.
But Blanka balls, headbutts, scissor kicks, spiral arrows, dan-kyaku, and dash punches won’t be too much of a problem anymore. Unless of course you can armor break the counter ultras.
I really hope they fixed Ultra I. At least let it juggle 3 times.
Full animation in a juggle would be scary good considering the damage potential. The odd hits do 285 damage total… full ultra does 495. Unless it scales like a motherfucker you’d be seeing craaaaazy totals for ultra juggles. ESPECIALLY if they fix CW to work in combos without the infinite problem. Easily 650-700+. I mean I have no issue with Fei being broken, but other people might…
By the way, the second ultra idea wouldn’t be hard to program. Q was rocking a similar sort of setup in 3S.
Well of course make it scale, I think all DP > ultra combos should scale but I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Sagat’s does tons of damage off of a DP and he has much better tools than Fei. So why would a character with a more difficult and risky game plan not deserve the same reward?
Personally I don’t care about Fei’s ultra juggle since I think they pretty much ruin the game anyway and getting about 350 which he does now is enough still some better consistency on the CW juggles would be nice. I read that the counter is like HCFx2 + kkk, nice way to make extra sure it’ll be absolutely useless. If you’re able to pull off HCFx2 + kkk against a headbutt or blanka ball on reaction you deserve a freaking medal. Now I’m just hoping that the super won’t get nerfed but considering it’s 400 damage and lots of console characters have that damage on their supers for no apparent reason chances are it could get nerfed.
Sagats reward off a DP is broken it’s not that Fei also needs it, Sagats needs to get his removed.