I don’t know if armor breaking chicken wing matters does it? I mean, if the initial hit gets FA’d than you’re gonna eat some sort of bizarre anti-air FA attack that just causes you to fly back, its not gonna crumple you, so I don’t think it’s a huge deal.
Sounds like Makoto’s Karakusa. 
But even Makoto could do ANYTHING after any version of Karakusa. Short version had the least range but she grabbed quickly while the roundhouse version had the most range and had more startup frames. I think they all had the same cooldown frames, though. Probably something like that would be nice. You should be able to connected the same hits as the current tenshin works.
NINJA EDIT: That does leave EX Tenshin in limbo, though… I’m on the fence whether it should have EX armor.
The initial hit can’t get FA’d, it has armor breaking properties so they’d eat the entire CW. It’s the second and third hit that don’t, which is just weird.
Other multi-hitting moves have armor breaking property on each hit, it seems arbitrary not to include it in chicken wing given it’s rather poor start up etc.
Hm, yeah I seem to remember always breaking armor with the first hit so that would make sense. But huh, thats weird that the next couple hits don’t break armor. I don’t think that allows them to FA in the middle of the chicken wing but I guess its pretty fail if you whiff the first hit and than the second gets FA’d.
Exactly, like, as far as I know…Chicken Wing is the only armor break in the game that is multi-hitting, but only the very -first- hit breaks armor.
I use a gamepad and I get this a lot. I’m not sure exactly how a chicken wing gets read as a Tenshin, which happens a lot too (especially after a dash), but I can at least see how Flame Kick might be interpreted as a Tenshin.
You start walking forward, change your mind and start to flame kick. As you release forward and move towards back, the controller reads a down forward. You complete the back, then do a down, then down backward, and then you accidentally hit back again and kick. That’s two mistaken button presses, both of which I think are easy to make. So you have 634214 kick which I guess prioritizes as Tenshin instead of Flame Kick. I don’t actually know if that’s what often happens, but it seems plausible. I would think it’s less of a problem for people that use a stick, but I don’t have one.
I use a gamepad (joystick not d-pad) and really I don’t find Flame Kick coming out EXCEPT during a combo. Like Standing HP into flame kick and than I get a Tenshin, and I scream lmao. Don’t know if its just a gamepad problem, but whatever, I only play on that.
Yeah I get walk forward tenshin when I go for flame kick pretty often, as well as walk forward chicken wing in response to fireballs eating one to the face as I EX tenshin like a dumb ass.
Fei still needs to be able to combo into his ultra to truly compete with the top like Sagat. I like those other suggested changes but to “be fine” as put, I think he really does need that, considering his low damage output. That and safer rekkas.
What if all DPs came out with the same invincibility frames and the same startup.
Would that really ruin balance at all? 
I’ve never even played as Fei, and I can safely say that it needs to happen. His Ultra is nigh on useless apart from on reaction/FA punish.
Maybe this will remain the same, and the assumed second Ultra everyone’s getting will be awesome for Fei - it’s entirely possible, as if they ARE selectable as everyone is assuming, it’s not like SF3 didn’t have useless supers no one ever selected.
If neither of those happen, Fei players can totally justify any and all bitching about it, as it doesn’t make him unbalanced to be able to use his Ultra, just viable really.
You think his damage output is low huh? I mean, 3x rekkas do a crap ton and they’re fast. (It seems)
It’s low when you factor in pretty much ALL his damage has to be done using normals and specials because his Ultra blows. You could always make rekkas a lil safer (though the third one should be punishable, it’s not that hard to hit confirm) and subtract some damage, but only if Fei has other means of dealing out some damage.
That’s my take on it, though that’s from a 'Rog player who’s never touched Fei. I just feel he’s got a pretty raw deal.
Actually, Rekka’s really don’t do -that- much damage. Now, I’ve been playing around with Fei for a few days and, perhaps it’s because I use a stick, but I’ve had no issues with accidentally getting tenshins on anything that wasn’t horrendously my own doing, it felt obvious when I would accidentally get a Tenshin (I would forget that Fei’s flame kick isn’t DP + K).
However, really, Tenshin is quite amazing. I’m surprised by that alone he’s not upper mid tier; his ultra really is the -only- thing that holds him back. He has easy 200 damage hit confirm combos that really push them into the corner, he’s fast, he’s got great AA normals, his Rekka’s can punish things pretty well, he’s got great normals in general…He’s definitely very fun to play, and Tick Tenshin’s with some meter are easy 300 damage combos. Or, better yet, if you’ve got super Tenshin is a hit-confirm into 500 damage.
His ultra, while bad damage etc, isn’t necessarily hard to connect given how fuckin amazing his focus attack is. It hits from half the screen away and has one of, if not the fastest start up available.
Now, I disagree with capcom’s decision there, but it’s still worth mentioning. It feels like they looked at him and consciously made his Ultra difficult to juggle with on the premise that his focus attack is the best in the game.
The first hit should be the only hit able to lock them into the ultra, regardless of whether they’re on the ground.
Rekkas don’t do that much actually, especially when comboed into. They’re also punishable on block by things like a full sagat combo for 60%. The risk vs reward isn’t there.
On his focus, it’s very difficult to find openings for focus except in very select few matchups. It’s definitely not an every match thing either. Focus isn’t a reliable way to combo ultra. It’s a gimmick that’s easy to get around when the player accounts for it.
Another reason I consider his damage output is low is that in comparison to other characters that can ultra you in a combo, Fei has to slowly chip you down. So while most characters have this huge burst of usually half health or more once a round, Fei has to kill everyone slowly, fair and square. This is bad because he loses the comeback factor a lot of other characters have, and can’t “burst people down” when they’re at lowish health sitting on ultra, eliminating their risk of a comeback.
I use Sagat as an example too much but when you sit at 60-70% health and he’s at 20%, I consider the match at even, because one uppercut means you’re sitting at the same / less health than him all of a sudden. If Sagat is at 70% and you’re at 20%, he has a huge lead.
Aye, most definitely. c.lk > s.lp > c.lp xx 3x Rekka does like, 193 damage if I’m not mistaken. Maybe a little more.
But it’s not that hard to hit confirm for the damage and the spacing. Fei Long can put someone in the corner pretty damn fast. His overhead is a good way to get in where you want to be as well.
I think aside from his ultra, he’s extremely solid. I’d toss him in the “Properly Balanced” category along with Ken and most of the rest of the cast.
I’d like to see EX tenshin latch onto fireballs, just to show everyone who’s boss.
Actually rekkas are pretty unsafe from almost all ranges, it’s just hard to punish them like that, but I’ve definitely met players who could. That’s why I say, just a bit more safety.
His chickenwings really do need work though. Comboing off all of them and same frame on hit block would be awesome and much needed. Fei would be a way better character if he could use his shorter ranged chicken wings. They could definitely be a bit faster too…it’s pretty easy to uppercut them on reaction as is.
Third rekka should be safe when spaced properly, at least let him get three hits of chip instead of 2.
Needs moar cowbell.
It makes for some effective ‘tick throws’ that limit the opponent’s options. Like, a standing jab blocked, cancelled into EX tenshin can mean (if timed well), that the person needs to either jump or use an invulnerable move; anything else and they eat it.
It sounds like a gimmick but I find it to be pretty effective. I generally use it once a match (so like, once every 2 or 3 rounds.)