I kind of like this card, and its only a common.
They shouldâve called this set Return to Homelands. Terrible cards for the most part. U/G Manland is pure plug though. I want alot of that card.
People are just buying this set for the rare lands, nothing else really.
(Yeah, Skyline Cascade is easily the best land of this set. Itâs almost stupid good, especially in a set that already leans towards Control.)
Heh. I wouldnât say itâs quite as bad as Homelands, but even trying to be optimistic while still being objectiveâŚyeah.
Iâd probably be willing to be more optimistic even if it wasnât the blatant money grab going on with the lands, which is going to propel Standard into âneed Modern amounts of money to actually playâ, especially given how expensive Jace, Liliana, Nissa, Hangarback Walker and Monastery Mentor already are relative to all the other cards in Standard. That type of BS only makes it worse and what we got wasnât exactly good compensation for the most part.
Thatâs true, but itâs basically Sunburst for non-artifacts and Sunburst, as it was implemented, was easily the weakest Mirrodin keyword as you know. Granted, thatâs perhaps unfair to say given all the overpowered stuff Mirrodin had in general, but the problem with Converge is, similarly, implementation like a lot of what Iâm lamenting about this set.
Iâll readily admit that the âno three or more colors for meâ thing is a factor despite also saying I was legitimately considering trying to think up a Temur Eldrazi (or Elemental) deck. Iâll readily admit, however, that despite agreeing that Painful Truths seems like one of worse cards or, at least, one of the more limited cards since you basically have to use it in a tri-color deck to get the most of it, it and Skyrider Elf and maybe Radiant Flames (which would may be fine if Hangarback Walker wasnât around to undermine it) are relatively fine. The other Converge cards, however, even with all their colors donât even seem worth it. Additionally, the only Converge besides Skyrider Elf that can even take all five colors is Prism Array, which is easily among the worst card in the set even though it could have been easily fixed by buffing the tap effect or just outright changing it or replacing the Scry effect with something if they felt so scared to go above Scry 3.
My problem is less that Converge is weak by definition and more that itâs weak by implementation, with only maybe three cards at best with it being worth using and one of thoseâSkyrider Elfâcurrently having no obvious home while anotherâRadiant Flames-- took up space that could have been used for a more readily usable sweeper. Even Painful Truths has to compete with the just reprinted Read the Bones outside of Limited.
You misunderstood me, but that was probably my fault. My problem wasnât Eldrazi being the focus. That makes sense.
My problem was that Eldrazi was the sole side to really get any real support. Allies, despite making up the majority of the non-Eldrazi creatures, didnât really get any support outside of Rally triggers beyond Ally Encampment, which is good, and March from the Tomb, which is limited to White and Black. Thatâs it unless I overlooked things. I guess Retreat to Emeria sort counts, but, again, it does nothing without Rally triggers already in play.
Iâm fine with Tribal focus. After all, I really liked Lorwyn block (even though I wasnât actually around for it) and thought Innistrad was quite good (even though I wasnât around for that either). Itâs justâŚeven if one side has the âadvantageâ in-story, there should still be a decent amount of support on the other side(s). Iâm not really seeing much for Allies beyond the above and I guess technically having a Planeswalker to their name.
(It also doesnât help that I think WotC missed an opportunity to make at least one mono-White Eldrazi card with Devoid, as well as making a third of the Eldrazi too dependent on Ingest [or ReboundâŚor SuspendâŚor Delve] having gone off even though simultaneously feeds back into Delve, but whatever.)
And Iâd normally be fine with that, but they actually kept a decent amount of Cantrips and all the crappy burn spells we got just take up space from other things. If they really wanted to not print burn, then they could have put something else in that spot, especially since itâs entirely their fault for reintroducing Delve in the first place when itâs always been somewhat bustedâTombstalker much?âand mono-Red was probably one of the few decks that wasnât making use of Delve anyway. If anything, Delveâs been hugely benefiting Blue and Black, the current colors of Control and the colors that just got buffed the most again.
SoâŚyeah? Why is RDW being punished for Delve when it didnât use it and at least four of their best spells (Eidolon of the Great Revel, Stoke the Flames, Lightning Strike and Searing Blood) are already rotating out of Standard anyway?
Pretty much all of that lifegain, though, is paltry stuff that Zulaport Cuttthroat and other âpingersâ easily undermine as well as Control generally keeps from activating.
Itâs not like I was expecting Felidar Sovereign to somehow become magically viable outside of causal circumstances. They honestly couldnât have made any cards that gain you more than 2 life in one go though if they were going to bother reprinting it?
Please pull the other one.
He
Damn I want to order 4 of that guy and I donât even have a place or time to play any more, as well as serious applications, heâs just screaming âPut me in a janky eldrazi spawn deckâ and I just so happen to have one there for him.
I guess they reprinted ghostfire, but this is better
I could only see this being used in mono blue tron maybe, also cant be countered
The reason that stuff is so expensive is because Monastery Mentor gets played in Miracles in Legacy, Hangarback in Affinity etc. Players are the ones that drive up the prices.
Sunburst for the most part just put +1 counters on something but even then the issue wasnât the mechanic it was the card strength. The issue isnât the keyword, itâs with what it is printed on. If itâs a good card that gets amazingly good with a spread mana base it turns into a brilliant card. All they keyword does is reward you for paying a harder casting cost. If that spell with the harder casting cost is worth it, then youâve got a good spell. Thatâs it really. If you need to pay a harder cost for an average or bad spell, itâs not. Thatâs the only way to view Converge.
Painful Truths IS a card you need to run 3 colours to use because itâs not worth it otherwise youâre better using Read The Bones. In a deck with 3 colours draw 3 for 3 is uniquely powerful however. Thatâs the sort of thing that gets playing salivating. In no way is that a bad card, it just doesnât suit you personally.
That Converge Kor summoning thing will probably pop up in some kind of Naya allies deck to abuse the Rally mechanic.
Skyrider Elf has a home with a bunch of the Dragons stuff that interacts with counters. You could run it in a Simic deck in Modern as well. Just in this block itâs good in those colours for maybe some kind of Ally deck but Iâm not sure those two colours will be the colours of choice for Tribal.
Rally triggers are what gives Allies their strength, there are a lot of strong combinations there. Allies are fine as an archetype. I can see multiple different ways Allies are going to fit into decks based on using Rally. If youâre running a creature deck you want to play creatures and when playing creatures gives you a stack of free abilities all going off at once youâre going to have a lot of cards hitting above their individual worth which is exactly what Tribal is.
Iâd say theyâre just worried about potential implications with Delve but donât get me wrong, RDW has enough on itâs own merits to warrant concern. RDW is making up multiple top 8s in Origins Pro Tours. That is largely on the back of Abbot of Keral Keep and Monestary Swiftspear with stuff like Bellstriker which are not rotating out yet. I wouldnât even be surprised if when Khans rotates out and weâre left with Origins and Dragons that Burn comes back. Swiftspear is an insanely powerful one drop that has seen a huge amount of play and Origins gave it the perfect buddy with Abbot.
I think that life deck could be decent. Cutthroat punished boardwipe that vampire that hurts them and heals you whenever allies come in and Dranaâs Emissary which is an ally that just does it every upkeep all have enough synergy to warrant trying it out. Iâll likely throw a deck along those lines together myself at some point and see how it goes.
If your concern with lifegain is that there are no Heroes Reunion+Faithmender type combos that let you cast your life up to a winnable level for Sovereign youâd be right that itâs not there. Sovereign has always been a casual card though so itâs unsurprising they havenât made it into something archetype defining. Depending on what comes out next set it could be better but for now itâs just a Limited card. Itâs got a huge back and lifelink so even if youâre not winning on life itâs a good card for a draft.
I tried that first as most will and it was ok biggest issue is mana. There is not a City of brass and your cinder glade/life land will come into play tapped which was a HUGE tempo issue. The format is at 4 for removal with Languish red has seismic rupture/radiant flames so outside red other colors are with 4-5 cost sweepers. This means you get 4 real turns on play in before the match becomes harder. Right now mana bases will be very ugly for people and I expect a high influx of fetch lands and ding lands. This is good for aggro.
The deck I made is where I think it should be now its does a lot of things the deck needs to do now to win. Its all mostly dash/haste so I am applying pressure early and often. In other words more sligh than aggro. I can win on the next turn following a languish which Ive done a lot in testing. Biggest issue is they didnât give red a Lightning Strike/Great Burn Spell like stoke the flames or a solid 1 drop like a Rakdoâs Cackler or anything like a dragon mantle. So I want to make sure I can apply pressure on turns 1- 5 in the face of anything. I went to the floor and am at 17 lands in a more sligh shell. 21-1 Drop 6- All haste 2 drop and burn/pump spells to play clean up. Call of the Full Moon isnât madcap skills but it might be better in itâs own way. Trample on that card has been amazing.
So the format has minimal 3 cost removal/more fetches/no carayatid or Courser/Bile Blight is gone. This bodes well for aggro and they knew that so they made sure not to make a lot of solid red cards. So you get a watered down sligh deck(Bonded Constuct lol) but can do 20 easy in a format like this. I think the 60 is spot on but Iâm working on the other 15 currently to be able to handle the midrange/other aggro decks a lot better.
I am aware. Also what I put in bold goes without saying because âduhâ to put it kindly, even if that doesnât prevent WotC from trying to blatantly manipulate the prices of some things, especially when they print utility cards at higher rarities than they need to be.
âŚExcept that I never called Painful Truths an outright âbad cardâ. I just said that that I view Painful Truths as one of the worse cards because of its inherent limitations. Itâs still perfectly usable and one of the best Converge cards, but neither of those is saying much really. Iâm sure it will see use and Iâve already admitted why Iâm personally dislike it. Not of that was me saying it was âbadâ though.
United Front would easily be one of the best Converge cards if they had just let it be Instant. As it is nowâŚitâs usable, but having to put down four colors for creatures that donât benefit from any of the Rally triggers without the Haste that Chasm Guide, who sits at the same CMC, just seems âmehâ to me. This especially with sweepers also sitting at 4 CMC.
Skyrider Elf is fine as it is. The problem is just that no other Elves are Blue and in fact lot of the ones that staying around, including arguably the most valuable one in Shaman of the Pack, are Black. While you could try to play Sultai Elves or something, Iâm not sure how âworth itâ that would be, especially since Sultai seems like itâs going to be the weakest tri-colors with Whip leaving, Delve cards aside given Azban can use Taisgur and any Blue deck can use Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time. Sheâll probably see use, it just seems rather weird that it wonât be with other Elves, especially since we didnât get nearly as many Elves as I was expecting to this time.
I know that. The problem with Rally, to me, is that most of the effects are temporary, without Chasm Guide none of those cards have Haste & thus tend to miss out on Rally when enter the battlefield unless Alesha is resurrecting them and they only really affect creatures this time, which is the same problem I have with Landfall.
Also Tribal is more than just creatures. Tribal is generally lowered casting cost, some type of creature specific support and other things that arenât strictly related to combat. Aside from the aforementioned Ally Encampment and March from the Tomb, Allies have none of that currently.
Also aware of this, especially since making Top 8 is nothing new for RDW.
The thing is, though, that RDW is basically one of those âalways bridesmaid, never the brideâ type of decks in that it always does well enough, but it almost never actually takes first place or even Top 3 anything big. I could understand the heavy reticence Stoke the Flames was staying around, since Convoke is almost as overpowered as Delve is, or even if Goblin Rabblemaster was staying around, since I think the Legendary Goblin Ally, Zada, is a underrated right now even if he would probably make a boring Commander. Neither of those is the case, though, in addition to Lightning Strike and a couple of other their important cards leaving without replacement, so really the best âreasonâ that I can grasp is the one BR3N7 posted where theyâre just worried about all the life loss from fetchlands and dual lands (which is again, their own damn fault).
Either way, none of that has anything to do with Delve, which why I donât see why you keep bringing it up in relation to Red. Only Red deck Iâve seen use Delve so far as is the Red/Blue Sphinxâs Tutelage deck, which isnât aggro.
Shrug. Weâll see.
I just think they could have waited to reprint it is all. Not like I or anyone else would have minded getting Admonition Angel back instead, especially given sheâs an actually interesting use of Landfall and saw next to no use last time because of a certain other angel.
On top of that, Limited for Battle for Zendikar is already looking mighty janky. Felidar Sovereign only makes things worse, even if it does have lifelink.
With Painful Truths I donât think you can consider it one of the worse cards due to limitations when those limitations are self-imposed. Thatâs on you more than the card itself. You could use that same logic to discount Siege Rhino which top level plays like Pat Chapin have stated will make its way into Legacy. Iâm not saying Painful Truths will have the same impact as Seige Rhino but what I am saying is that draw 3 for 3 is incredibly powerful regardless of what keyword is required to cast it.
Moving on though while Painful Truths is a card that will need to be played with itâs full potential or be replaced I doubt United Front will get played with 4. It will get played with 3 mana for 3 tokens for 4 which with Rally triggers in Ramp colours will be more than fine. I expect United Front and probably Collected Company and Outnumber will provide the spell support for Naya Ally creatures. On paper that deck looks incredibly potent.
This I can agree on. If the tribal gets used it will be with allies, not elves. Elves will be green, green black or even green red to use stuff like Outnumber and Wildslash. I see her main use to be counter synergy. There are a lot of green cards that interact with counters from the last set.
They are temporary which is what encourages you to keep dropping creatures. Itâs a disadvantage but also an advantage because it can lead to combos with multiple effects triggering at once or effects triggering multiple turns in a row. In effect the creatures themselves supplant the kind of anthem sorceries that might back something like that up. How I view it working is that you play creatures to buff what is already on the board instead of using sorceries and it has a snowball effect as you keep doing it. For example drop cheap threats to bait removal then you ramp or curve into giving it all menace, then you it all double strike and menace next turn, then you give both the double striking menace creatures +2/+2 the following turn etc. I havenât sat down and built the deck but itâs going to be a thing and itâs going to be annoying. There are cards from other blocks that will gel well with that approach like Collected Company as well which is what will give it an edge competitively.
Iâm bringing up Delve because Burn spells are a big part of what made Treasure Cruise / Dig Through time so effective. Burn spells also give value to Gurmag Angler and Taisugur which have found their way into Modern. Cheap spells that let you clear the board of potential threats and also accelerate your own threats coming to the board are exceptionally powerful. It has everything to do with Delve because the Delve mechanic is very abusive and until it rotates out any kind of spammable one mana spell doubles as ramp.
Pro Tour Origins first place was Joel Larssonâs red aggro. Right now itâs the bride. It is dominating the Pro Tour to the point where itâs half the field in any given top 8. The end of M15/Theros with Tarkir/Origins will be remembered by RDW. Look up the decks and tournament reports if you donât believe me.
There are burn spells still in Standard as well, itâs not like theyâre gone completely with m15. Wild Slash is probaby the best of them. Fiery Impulse zaps creatures if not players and Exquisite Firecraft is not only an option but a 4 of in a lot of top decks right now.
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Iâm playing in six pre-release events in a week. Looking over the set I have ideas for what Iâm going to be aiming at building Sealed. There are decks there even within the block.
Currently evaluating the new set.
Overlooked Cards:
Blisterpod- This card can put you a turn ahead of your opponent the very moment it dies. For the sake of standard, I kind of like this one. All in all, itâs a slightly less risky Elvish mystic, but the downside is that he is not immediate mana ramp.
Uginâs Insight:The ability to scry and draw 3 cards is absolutely insane. If youâve got any of your threats on board to stick, then you can play this and just win.
Spell Shrivel: Itâs a less blue intensive dissapate. @FrostyAU I canât believe hyped Scatter to the Winds up, when this card is pretty much better in every way. Shoutouts to commons that beat mythic rares.
I think thatâs it other than that exile creature power 3 or less card(Complete Disregard).
This set is pretty horrible actually.
Spell Shrivel is good. I like Halimar Tidecaller a lot though and there are a stack of cards youâve overlooked. Zulaport Cutthroat is Blood Artist with the Ally Keyword and 1 power. Thatâs in a set with abusable sac mechanics with scions, smothering abomination etc.
Blisterpod is probably going straight into the Abzan Ascendancy-deck in Modern since itâs pretty much a strictly better Tuskatongue Thallid.
(I agree with all those cards being well done.)
Noted on your opinions and the facts with regards to RDW, @FrostyAU. Iâm sure Painful Truths will see use. It justâŚbugs me right now currently. A lot about this set bugs me even though Iâd rather a set be half-full of janky crap than half-full of busted crap like we got with a lot of Mirrodin both times. Iâd rather avoid more power creep, thanks, at least when it comes to cards that are already good and done see use.
Thatâs definitely more to do with me than Painful Truths though, especially seeing how a lot of theoretical new Standard decks are hitting $300~ just due to lands and planeswalkers. The fun. As I already said, Iâd doubtless be less annoyed by this set as a whole if it wasnât for the dual, treasure land bullshit.
Sigh. At least Mr. Cutthroat was mercifully printed at Uncommon.
Anyway, I can definitely see Allies working, especially since I was reminded that Rally the Ancestors is a think. I think it just needs Chasm Guide to beat face. Too bad Alesha canât get her back, but maybe thatâs for the best.
goes back to think up a janky Orzhov enchantment list
Orzhov?
Try a Thousand Cuts deck.
4x Kalistria Healer
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
4x Dranaâs Emissary
Flesh out that core with removal, probably a few more allies and it should be golden.
Spoiler
You mean
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=189145&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=3444&type=card
AlsoâŚ
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=370670&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=46741&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=349&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=428&type=card
@BR3N7 Weâre gonna have a no ban modern tournament in my city, and here I am building hatebears for it.
So it goes.
So Jealous, I would be all over skullclamp like its 2003 and pair it with its nigga Disciple of the Vault. Would take me back 12 years ago that would be fucking awesome.
That or have fun with Treasure Cruise or even better play eggs 
again Iâm Jealous, I would love to play in that format.
i would so play deathrite shaman pod.