whoa, great in FFA? I’ve only done well with him in FFA once reaching 100% or after getting a smashball. I think he’s unbelievable 1v1 though
Ffa
Maybe it’s just my rediculous amount of experience of FFA (that’s what I primarily played in Melee), but I don’t have a hard time keeping him alive in FFA.
Why do I think he’s great? Sphere and F-Smash are both great attacks to launch into other people’s battles. The counter also is AMAZING in FFA. If you have multiple people coming at you, all you need is 1 counter to take them all out. IMO, its better than the Marth/Ike counter because you teleport behind the group and then attack - Great for when you are completely surrounded (Marth/Ike won’t hit people behind).
The damage scaling just makes him that much better. There are times you may have to play ‘run away’, but you should be a beast.
And besides, FFA is the only time you can hit someone with his Final Smash anyways. 
Chippy
alright, here’s something to add.
D-smash: Use it ONLY when people are behind you. the portion of the attack behind Lucario has range; the front part gains absolutely nothing. Pretty good move, sometimes I turn my back to my enemy just to get the chance to do this move. On the subject of turning his back, charging a fireball or catching a predictable jumpin with B-air almost makes it worth playing with Lucario’s back turned the majority of the fight.
F-smash: this move is better than I thought. This is THE ground melee move to use. it’s spammable, and the fire on the end is disjointed yet still packs a pretty hard hit. Escaping that is pretty hard
Aura Sphere: if someone is stupid enough to jump at you without preparation while you’re charging it up, you can counter them by simply waiting on them to DI (I think for them to escape, they have to DI in front of you) and then shoot it. Free combo. also, although it’s good fully charged, you don’t have to use the fully charged version of this move each time. the little fireballs are good for building up damage and forcing your opponents up into the air.
Lucario may be weak, but he can build up damage quickly. I think of the aura power as a plus, especially since his smashes, D-air, and B-air can move the opponent around. The aura power just adds to him imo. Before, he could build up damage and attempt to kill. With aura, he can build up damage and straight up kill. also, for those having trouble vs Ike, I think his counter is fast enough to deal with most of Ike’s moves. I’m still trying to see all the things countering can do. So far, I’ve learned to use it against Pikachu’s thunderstorm, which was harder than I thought but kinda worth it. Not sure if it can be used well against regular attacks yet, but I’ll find out.
The counter seems to have the same timing as Marth’s from Melee, just a split second later. Otherwise it feels the same (if not better) to me.
You are right about the downsmash - sometimes its best to clear people off of you in FFA, but many times a well placed counter does this better. I guess this move is the poop in 1v1?
I’m having trouble with Game & Watch, though… $%^&er is a beast. Your sphere is completely negated by G&M’s bucket, and he just seems to stuff almost all of my moves. You never have to worry about the dropping key (just counter), but when you get chaired over and over, what do you do? G&M got the super buff from Melee it feels like, but maybe its just the matchup.
Ike is easy, just like almost the entire heavy cast (sans Wolf). Your counter is your best weapon, as well as being faster and/or having more range. Your aura helps makeup for the difference in weight. It doesn’t help that most people spam his SLOWEST moves…
Chippy
oh. when i was talking about D-smash, I was referring to 1v1. actualy all that info was to 1v1, not FFA. not sure how to play him in FFA at all… so I just try to stick with a weakened opponent.
I played an Ike today. It was laggy, but I have to say… it’s hard for Lucario to approach Ike. It’s not impossible to fight that match, but because of Ike’s reach, straight up attacking is hard. In fact, the only time I was able to attack a lot is after landing that jab combo. otherwise, it was shield grabbing, Force Palm, and Aura Sphere
Played an Ike earlier 1v1 and didn’t have much of a problem. Your F-Smash has better reach. Countered Every Aether thrown, maybe that helped.
Is it just me, or do the sword characters have the same drawback as in Melee - The sword can be “hit”. I don’t know if it was lag, but there were times where my range was just right where only the aura of the F-Smash clashed with Ike’s sword, and I hit him without being hit back…
Sphere + F-Smash + Counter seemed to be all I needed. But then again, that Ike could have sucked…
Chippy
Best thing about the counter is if you do it in the air it’ll bring you back down to the stage
More to add.
as much as I liked using it, HM2F2 (love that name btw) is just a dream. Lucario is offered far more by ending comboes with N-air than with D-air, even though it’s significantly weaker. for HM2F2 to be effective, you’d have to hit with both stomps 100% of the time. If you don’t, you can be punished during it most of the time. N-air, on the other hand, can end comboes with very little accuracy, hard to punish, and has absolutely no landing lag… so if you’re attacking someone on the ground and end your aerial spree with N-air, you could easily follow that up with something else (ex. Jab combo). Speaking of jab, I’ve found it too hard to use on its own. if you find a time where the enemy is completely unguarded, you’re free, and you need a quick attack, then the jab combo is perfect. but if you’re trying to use the moves as best as possible, as far as the ground then goes F-smash works better for keeping space and F-tilt works better for attacking them.
another thing to add: U-tilt seriously has to be Lucario’s absolute best damage builder. U-tilt’s damage building potential alone has helped me destroy a 4 stock lead. Oh, and did you guys know that the power of the aura is determined not only by the damage Lucario’s received, but by his place in battle (ex. In a 4 stock game, a 2 stock 90% Lucario is stronger than 4 stock 90% Lucario)?
In terms of ending combos, yes maybe it is better to use Nair. And also, in many situations it can be better to use Nair. But the versatility and spammability of Dair makes it effective. Dair has less of a landing lag than Nair, true, but it is still a pretty fast recovering aerial (jump into instant Dair can be very sneaky and effective). Also, while it’s true that Dair is best when you hit with BOTH stomps, Nair is best when you hit them as the move is coming out, rather than brushing them with the hitbox, because then it’s pretty weak. This isn’t that hard to do though, so maybe it’s just a minor issue. Dair is also your best protection against people below you when you’re on platforms. A quick falling Dair through a platform can be very effective.
I just think “significantly weaker” is a bit exaggerated. Throwing out Nairs all the time (unless you’re always doing it right before you hit the ground) leaves you wide open, as the lag immediately after the move is a lot more than Fair or Dair. So…keep tryin’ with the Dairs…they’ve never done me wrong yet.
Adding to the Utilt thing, it really is a great move. More often than not, you can put together three or four of them in a row. Gotta love spamming it as they try in vain to get away :lol:.
Interesting bit about the place in battle’s relation to the aura. I was a little curious as to what exactly that meant. I thought it meant if you were in the lead, your aura’s a little weaker. Or is it just determined by number of stocks?
wow, we think more alike on tihs than I thought. that’s exactly how I feel about N-air. Actually, I thought it was pretty much understood that you only use N-air as you land, but you knew that much too. We see him alike, with small differences
btw, the aura power stock thing… it’s in referral to your opponent’s lead over you. assume the opponent has 4 stocks and it’s a 4 stock match. A damaged Lucario at 2 stocks is more powerful than a damaged Lucario at 4 stocks. I heard this from a friend and I’ve kinda seen it in action, but don’t know much other than this
Okay. I guess the next thing to ask is, if you’re the one in the lead, is your aura weaker? Or, does it stay at a normal level?
not sure. I know he’s not as powerful, but I’m not sure if that’s to say he’s weaker. all I know is when my friend had 4 stocks and I had 2, I was creating huge Aura Spheres at 20%
Anybody find a good use for the Side+B? Besides throwing a sphere at them afterwards…
Also, what are good tactics when you do NOT have a sphere? I admit I’m starting to use it alot, and my game starts to fall apart without having one charged while I’m less than 100-120%. After 120, I don’t care as he’s a frickin’ monster.
Speaking of which, has anybody else noticed that the priority of some moves change as your damage rises as well? I’ve snuffed things with the AAA combo at 150% that I know I SHOULDN’T have when I was like 0-25%.
Chippy
the B-forward can be used to set up a kinda chain grab. That’s not what I use for though… what I use it for is to set up for the next attack I’m going to do. you can kinda get the feel for what to do once you’ve landed it.
You mean when you don’t have a fully charged sphere? you could shoot the tiny ones. I think even those build up damage. From there, it’s Street Fighter 101 unless you’re playing vs anyone who can deal with projectiles effectively (ex. G&W, Wolf). If you feel naked without fighting with fully charged spheres, one good tactic I find is to charge at them, hurt them as many times as you can during the throw, then push them away. That’ll give you time to form one or at least part of one.
The priority thing… I had NOT noticed that at all. interesting if it’s accurate…
Hehe…maybe you shouldn’t listen to me, but, when I don’t have a fully charged sphere, I just try to get in there and beat the crap out of them :lol:. The sphere is good, but when I play, I try hard to not depend on it. What I do is basically just get into the habit of charging a sphere whenever you’re not in immediate danger of being attacked, so that means whenever you send them flying, or if they’re standing on the other side of the stage (since you can cancel charge with guard or roll anyway). Sometimes i just jump at them while charging, though this is not safe and I wouldn’t recommend it, it’ll at least keep your opponents guessing when you’ll sit and charge and when you’re throwing them.
I’ve been trying to expand my game to include Side B more, and let me tell you, it has been coming through for me. In most situations where you would need a grab, you can just use a side B instead. Lucario’s normal grab range is absolutely terrible, so I’ve found that Side B can be used to play throw mindgames you normally play with better grabbing characters. Another thing is that if you go for the grab version, if you whiff, there’s still a chance the aura part of the move will cover your ass. So, it’s not TOTALLY unsafe. But yeah, I wouldn’t consider it spammable at all, so use a good bit of discretion. Plus, when you are high enough, meaning 110% and up, this move can really, really hurt people.
EDIT: Side B as I’ve seen a lot of players do recently, can also be useful during the AAA combo, instead of finishing it. So, A, A, SideB. I haven’t used it a lot myself, but I hear it works wonders for other Lucario players.
More Stuff
AA-Side B is frickin’ great, but only when you are at low damage so they don’t get knocked back far enough. Great opener I’m starting to find.
This is also great in the air. Instead of Air-Forward-A juggles, hit them once with Air-Forward and then Side-B. I find myself usually “on” my opponent when I do these juggles, so it seems pretty easy to slip in.
The grab seems instantaneous, and it feels MUCH better doing Side-B out of a dash instead of a regular throw out of a dash…
Do you see any situation that a regular grab is better than Side B?
Chippy
yes. for instance, when you’re high % and you want to charge an aura sphere but they won’t leave you the fuck alone, shield grab, mash grab as much as possible, then throw them away while immediately building up the aura.
question: has anyone used this move (B-forward) in the air? is it possible to throw in the air? I haven’t been able to pull that off
It’s not possible and if it is, I haven’t been able to figure it out lol.
anyone having olimar troubles? or do a majority of you play free for alls? where specific match ups really aren’t an issue.
Well some tricks against olimar are as followed if it’s 1v1 (free for alls I have no idea. I came from SB so thats why =p)
when his pikman latch on to you you can just run at him and down b it’ll usually hit him, good thing about this is, it forces the pikman off of you, you’ll either A hit olimar or B miss either way it’s good because even if you miss the olimar has to get new pikman anyway unless he’s pretty conservative about tossing his pikman.
edge guarding Olimar is pretty easy to do as well just hang on the ledge and if you can edge tech do it because well Olimar will die and you won’t or you could risk not teching and you might get stage spiked I would say learn to tech though as it covers your options and Olimar will die.
Eh I think thats it lol.
My Bad
I’m an idiot. I went and looked at my replays (“of course you can do it, guys. what’s so hard about it”), and I’m not actually grabbing the guy and I’m just with him as the SideB goes off in the air. That’s what I get for trying something out really drunk and then talking about it the next day. My sincere apologies, although I swear I had done it once. You may commence flamming.
As for Olimar, I can’t help as I’m the resident Olimar player as well. Speaking from the other angle, watch out for over-countering or using it to get rid of Pikmin. His throw has the same range as the feet of his forward smash, and he can easily slip it in any of his “toss” strings. Killing his Pikmin only really the recovery of a good player, as a good Olimar can fight and win with just 1-2 Pikmin if he knows how to work it.
Your goal should be to get Olimar in the air. You are WAY better than him in the air as long as you aren’t along his diagonal for his UpB. Knock him up any way you can. Pikmin follow great on the ground but can really suck following in the air, so you may get a chance (random small percentage, but its there) that he’ll ‘miss’ grabbing a Pikmin, aka he’s completely frickin’ defenseless and you get to own him.
Aura sphere is great for knocking many Pikmin off, as long as they are not on your front or toes. Downsmash works wonders for getting rid of Pikmin on you as well, and much safer IMO than trying to use the counter on a good player.
That’s about the best help I can give against Olimar as I don’t know how it’s like to fight him, just what goes through my mind when I’m as him against Lucario. Our range is even but I have a ranged throw that goes just as far. I feel as though I have the advantage on the ground, but then get my butt whooped once I’m in the air.
Chippy