Apologies. I forgot to say “against airborne opponents”.
Ahh, that makes sense. I hate the slow menus in this game so I avoid looking at the list sometimes. Seems like this slipped my attention.
I guess we´ll have to test every chain and every normal in all stances while ending at any part of a chain with every direction held at a time to find out where we can change stances on the fly. Thats going to be a lot of work and we should probably collect our results in a thread.
Yea. I tried every one in every stance, and luckily the first post explains most of it, with minor corrections needed for directions held. The only thing that is missing is Drunk stance LK xx MP xx HK chain transition to Crane by holding back, which you have found already 
not sure if anybody knew but not only does drunken sip go under jump ins and standing if you do it twice the next hit counts as a counter hit 
You guys have got to annotate this stuff xD
Yeah, Lei even has an option to stock a CH without a meter.
I tried to to some punishes against/with other characters, and I believe I got some frame data (assuming THEIRS didn’t change at all):
May have some errors
Regular Stance
[details=Spoiler]cr.LP: 4f start-up, +4f on hit, 0f on block
st.LP: 4f start-up, +7f on hit, +3f on block
cr.MP: 5f start-up, +6f on hit, +2f on block
st.MP: 6f start-up, +2f on hit, -2f on block
cr.HP: 9f start-up, -4f on hit, -9f on block
st.HP: 7f start-up, 0f on hit, -6f on block
cr.LK: 5f start-up, +6f on hit, +2f on block
st.LK: 5f start-up, +3f on hit, -1f on block
cr.MK: 8f start-up, +3f on hit, -1f on block
st.MK: 10f start-up, -3f on hit, -7f on block
cr.HK: 8f start-up, -7f on block
st.HK: 11f start-up, -5f on hit, -10f on block
f+MP: 6f start-up, very unsafe on hit and block without stance change (1st~4th hit of the string are at least -13f on hit), +2f* on hit with stance change, -2f* on block with stance change
f+MP>LP: +4f/0f with stance change
f+MP>LP>MP: +2f/-2f with stance change
f+MP>LP>MP>LP: -2f/-6f with stance change
f+MP>LP>MP>LP>LK: +1f on hit, -4f on block
f+MP>LP>MP>LP>MK: -6f on hit, -11f on block, -1f/-6f with stance change
*It’ll take Lei at least 1f to crouch down from a stance (eg. f+MP -> stance change -> cr.MP), so give him an effective frame advantage of +1f when you’re linking into a regular stance crouching normal. It does not affect blocking.[/details]
Specials & Super
[details=Spoiler]qcf+K: -3f on block without follow-up (non-EX), -2f on block without follow-up (EX), +9f on hit without follow-up (non-EX)
qcb+K 1st hit: -10f on standing block & -5f on crouching block (non-EX), -7f on standing block & -3f on crouching block (EX)
All versions of DP: 8f start-up, follow-up is unsafe on block (but pushes opponents back)
Super: 4f start-up
Cross Super: 10f start-up
Stance change (Snake): 13f recovery
Stance change (Drunk): 13f recovery
Stance change (Back): 13f recovery[/details]
Snake Stance
[details=Spoiler]LP: 5f start-up, +3f on hit, -1f on block
MP: 8f start-up, +2f on hit, -2f on block, 0f/-4f with stance change
HP: 11f start-up, +3f on hit, -2f on block
LK: 6f start-up, 0f on hit, -4f on block
MK: 8f start-up, 0f on hit, -4f on block
HK: 10f start-up, 0f on hit, -5f on block
LP>LP: +3f on hit, -1f on block, -5f/-9f on stance
LP>LP>LP: +3f on hit, -1f on block, -5f/-9f on stance
LP>LP>LP>LP: +3f on hit, -1f on block, -5f/-9f on stance
LP>LP>LP>LP>LP: +3f on hit, -1f on block, -5f/-9f on stance
LP>MP: -9f on hit, -13f on block
LP>MP>LP: +3f on hit, +1f on block, -5f/-7f with stance change
LP>MP>LP>MP: +1f on hit, -3f on block
MP>MP: -9f on hit, -13f on block, 0f/-4f with stance change
MP>MP>MK: -14f on hit
MP>MP>MK>LK: -12f on hit
MP>MP>MK>LK>MK: -9f on block
LP>MP>LP is very unique in the sense that it is actually +1f on block, having only 2f less blockstun than the hitstun[/details]
Dragon Stance
[details=Spoiler]LP: 8f start-up, 0f on hit, -4f on block
MP: 7f start-up, +5f on hit, +2f on block
HP: 11f start-up, -1f on hit, -6f on block, +3f/-2f with stance change
LK: 6f start-up, 0f on hit, -4f on block, -1f/-5f with stance change
MK: 12f start-up, -1f on hit, -5f on block
HK: 13f start-up, +4f on hit, -1f on block
MK>LP: +2f on hit, -2f on block, +2f/-2f with stance change
MK>LP>MP: +1f on hit, -3f on block
MK>LP>MP>LK: 0f on hit, -5f on block
f+2P: 16f start-up, +7f on block[/details]
FRAME DATA. SWEET DELICIOUS FRAME DATA.
It took me 20 minutes to figure out on my own with Law’s frame data to work out that the super is 4f. (it punishes frame perfect his far st.mk for those playing at home) and then I thought, fuck this.
Record Lei doing various blockstrings I was playing with and checked if I could standing dp reversal it with Ryu. No dp? SAFE ENOUGH.
The actual numbers are comforting, you my friend are a champion. Looks like I need to use st.lp more, assuming it has some nice plus on block.
I think if I had to show one character to a skeptic of SFxT to convince them that it’s interesting and different than other capcom fighters, I would show them Lei. The variety of play styles you could have with this guy is impressive.
Any thoughts on whether he is shaping up to be a point or anchor? How is his meter appetite shaping up?
Lei is the character I most want to use after Lars and Cody, and my execution and fighting experience is awful. I want to be able to tear down this wall people are building up and show he can be played well if you trim his fat, just not excellently. We will see if my hopes get dashed once I actually start seeing him
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Still too early to say, but I’m putting him on anchor atm because my other character (Xiaoyu) is much faster in terms of walkspeed. Lei is more of a character that requires more of a quick thinking rather than fast fingers + execution, since he will end up using different stances depending on the situation.
Yeah too early. Just wondering which position people are putting him in and with which partners.
Fast thinking is not my strong suit, but I like gathering tech and info about this game almost as much as playing it. I see Lei as the ultimate “look how much time I put into learning this game” character, like anti-Ryu
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I’ve got him as anchor for either Dudley or Law and it works really well so far. Not that he needs the meter, but Law and Dudley close distance really well, and have grounded hold tag ins (machine gun blow, Shaolin spin kicks) that let Lei really have some fun. I tried him as lead and it…did not work out well.
Comet kick>back stance>reverse double kick x2>cr.mp>reverse lotus is a scary thing to be packing. 400+ damage with no meter as a 3/4 screen fireball punish is enough to make any shoto shit his bricks. Getting his anti-fireball game down is really giving me more pleasure than it should.
There’s something gratifying about watching a Sagat jump backwards and tiger shot all match while you sit back with a life lead drinking imaginary wine.
I do not think it is imaginary, Lei gets drunk off of the whine of his opponents.
Man, I used Kuma for a while just because of his fireball punish damage, but that sounds absurd. Do want.
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AHHHHHH. What you did there, I see it.
More experimenting:
With tags, Law can get b.mp>m.p (the two punch bound) after a tag in on the last follow up of Lei’s tornado kick. Lei’s super is 4F so even if you choke, getting a full charge super off Law’s mp.rush punch tag in is a stupid easy way to do 450+ damage.
With 2 meters, Dudley and Law almost break 600 damage off a jump in. Dudley’s j.hk and Lei’s reverse lotus work wonders together.
Tried teaming Lei with Christie in training mode and it makes absurd amounts of sense. Her pokes are crazy good, acceptable AA and air to air game, high/low mix ups are amazing, closes distance well, but she does poor damage solo. Her f.mk can be cancelled into her handstand and any of it’s follow ups, which Lei on hit or block can safely come in to apply more pressure. If her kick follow up (rapid kicks) hits, you can tag Lei in, nj.hp>cr.hp>whatever, or stance change and have some fun. They have some incredible synergy potential.
So as I was playing last night I found myself thinking about how lei should be played. As far as my tekken experience goes, I would try to get in, do something that would get him into a stance, then work through the stances because they have various low/mid/high components. That being said, lei not within a stance can easily be down backed as I have yet to find a safe overhead. So into the stances he goes, but whenever lei blocks he leaves his stance, and with the propensity of people to mash jab in this game I find that a lot of his stance changes can be beat out/canceled. So I have been transitioning into various stances as a mix up game after a knockdown. Great part is, if you have the meter all of his chains leave off with the ability to tag in Law very well. I find myself doing these mix ups on the opponents wake-up because not only does this game promote having high mobility, but also pushing buttons. So if you’re in any stance while in a neutral position, you are going to get jumped in on, lose the stance, and versus some chars… well good luck because his mashed DP to break pressure gets beat out of its start up really easy.
Anyway, I just wanted to see where people were at in there game. I have been using lei/law with lei on point. With gems activated I have been able to work out some stuff that will kill pretty fast. But once lei loses his momentum and starts to get pressured it’s hard for him (maybe I should say me) to do anything other than alpha counter or block cause his DP is butt with the exception of ex. I will have to try the drunken stance anti-air though, that seems it would be really good if after a failed jump in to go into his drunken chain.
anywhere to find a breakdown of what the stances properties are? also what’s Lei’s best “get off me” move? EX DP+K?
Page 2 has a nice summary of stances written by exploid. They pretty much apply to the current version Lei.
MK DP is his invincible one, along with EX DP.
frustrating that his super doesn’t work off a juggle, seems like he only does the double palm with no followup animation.
Yea, he does the palm, it gives wall bounce, and adds 3 juggle points. Probably the only follow-up is qcb+K.
Im using my team of Xiao and lei and I figured out that you can do Lei’s full super animation of a ground bounce. hope this helped XD