The Last Blade 2

Online Forums Computer/Handheld
21

This game is really fun, I just started playing it with a few of my friends online (we’re all new to 2D fighters though).

You guys should seriously consider playing on Poporu if you want to play without Kaillera’s lag. Poporu’s netcode is ridiculously good. The Poporu guide is here: http://sa-fighters.atspace.com/poporu_guide/

but you’ll need help with a certain part of it, so the IRC channel is #Poporu on EFNet (irc://irc.desync.com/poporu)

There’s a pretty active (though currently small) Poporu community, with most of the people playing KOF98 over LB2, but if all of you Kaillera players migrated, that might change a bit.

22

People complain about the fact that you need to enter a KSSN, wich is pretty much identity theft and whatnot.

Besides, I think the coin system is ridiculously annoying once you run out of your innitial 50 coins.

And private server Kaillera isn’t bad at all.

23

About the KSSN: you’re not stealing anything, you’re just using a name to use a free service. Identity theft is a pretty large overstatement.

The coins are a little annoying, but once you’ve done it a few times, it’s not a big deal at all. Just leave IE open and refill your coins whenever necessary. It’s a small price to pay for amazing netcode and a good selection of games.

Private server Kaillera might not be bad, but I doubt it holds a candle to Poporu’s netcode.

24

The term “netcode” does not exist in either gaming or the programming world. Please refrain for using nonexistent terms so people can understand you. Thanks =)

And what do you mean by netcode? the protocol? the program? the entire system?

25

Actually, it does exist, and it pertains to online games. Netcode refers to the code of the online play function of a game. If something has good netcode, it usually means that it makes the game very playable online even when the two players are a decent distance apart. An excellent example of this is Quake 3’s CPM, where tournaments have been held with players from different countries competing without lag being a big issue. Another good example is the aforementioned Poporu.

26

I saw Last Blade 2 running on an arcade machine today, as a matter of fact.

It was in my living room. I might have to look into this kaillera business. I’ve really been dragging my feet on it.

Great game, though. Seeing people taking an interest in it makes me smile.

27

Must be a vary local word. Something like “netcode” does not make a lot of sense and I can’t think of programmers other than those who served their time in a mental hospital to think of something as weird and out of place as that. Never heard of it even once in my long online gaming life. And If I remember correctly even from the freshest of my experiences from less than an hour ago, when it lags, people don’t say that the game has “bad netcode.” I don’t know how smart those people are but I think I can safely say that those people aren’t dumb enough to blame a program for lag over the internet. You will never find a publication about network performance that talks about “bad programming” and for you information, kaillera code isn’t that bad at all. I’ve seen dedicated servers running 20+ games in parallel without any spikes. or more delay than their ping deserves. But, if you are judging by playing in those public servers u have in US/Canada region, you are trying to discredit ethernet with your publication on ether.

And I dont think Quake 3 compares to Kaillera or Poporu. They are out of context. In FPS, there is an intelligent central server that knows everything like player’s positions, map geometry, guns and their capabilities and what does what. The clients send asynchronous commands and server decides whats good and whats bad and their order. Try to snipe a dancing 20 ms guy with 250 ms ping in cs or any other fps game. I know because I’ve tried FPS on dialup. It’s idea of synchronization works at a totally different level than emulators implementing middlewares like kaillera. The reason Kaillera cant be like Quake 3 because Kaillera doesn’t even know what game you are playing. It could not care less about whether you’re playing a chess or having a video conference. I haven’t looked into Poporu so I wont comment on it but if you know about it beyond the level of “OMG! I HAD THE BEST GAME EVER! NO LAGG! GAARAATEE NETCODE! Kaillera = SHIT NETTCODE!,” feel free to enlighten me. I’ve heard that line a million times before about other systems and how much they “own” kaillera. It doesn’t really tell me anything because my experiance with kaillera as an user is the same and I am sure I’m not the only one.

28

just to let you know netcode isnt a very common word on the internet, but any program that uses the internet uses netcode:tup:(so pretty much all programs have netcode) the reason poporu is so much better than kaillera is because there no middle man at all, poporu was designed to play snk games online and for no other reason, yea it cant play all the mame game but the games it can play run flawless online, there no lag at all(if both user as in the same country). im not trying to hate to much on kaillera i mean i played games where there was almost no lag at all, but after playing with poporu its just night and day difference. i think anyone that has use both would say the same. i think the only downfall of poporu is it not easy for a noob to use(not noob-friendly) so most people with just continue to use kaillera:sad:

EDIT: “The term “netcode” does not exist in either gaming or the programming world. Please refrain for using nonexistent terms so people can understand you.” lol noob asleast try googling the word before saying it fake wow the nerve of some people:rolleyes:

29

to bottom line it,
Netcode = the way a game engine handles infomation and translates that into what is happening in an online game to client computers that then translate that infomation to the player.

http://www.gamesurge.com/pc/interviews/netcode.shtml
The above is about how valves netcode works for the half life engine.

30

Well smartass noob, I did google and all I could find was ISPs and companies named “netcode,” something to do with commonwealth bank or something and some other online financial service trademarks which I dont have any accounts in, sames of components and projects (not used as any type of category nomenclature), a site with tutorials on HTML/PHP/JS/etc stuff(didnot find any network programming tutorials) and … bs goes on for ever. On top of that, I did not find it in 4 dictionaries of internet I looked in. So obviously…as long as I am concerned…its not used for that purpose enough to be a word. And there is a better and more widely accepted word that existed before the beginning of internet to refer to the shit Rhythm1c is on about. Its P R O T O C O L.

The reason most people use kaillera is because they did not buy ipods before their friends had it. You cant expect everyone to use your service just because you think its be best. U want more people to start using poporu? Translate the goddamn thing to English and start advertising.

31

Thats a rather bum argument, there are guides set up (in this very forum) for the sign up proccess, people willing to actually do it for you if you’re a retard, and to top it off you dont need to know a bit of korean to run the thing. People need to stop making poporu out to be harder to use than it is.

The fact is, it runs the games it can way better than mame/kaillera do with minimal effort needed to aquire it.

32

I’m not retarded. I tried to sign up with assistance and it still took something like 45 minutes. I also don’t like the idea of using someone else’s SSN (imagine someone in Korea using yours) even if I’m not directly ripping them off. Furthermore, the sign-up process isn’t the only thing I dislike. I can understand resorting to poporu if you have serious problems with kaillera, but I don’t. If you like poporu that’s cool, but don’t make it out to be as easy as 1,2,3.

33

“Something like “netcode” does not make a lot of sense…”

What is so hard to understand? The word “netcode” is practically self-explanatory. Net-code. Easier now? Internet code. Refers to the internet code of an online game. I guess some people haven’t heard of it, but seriously, it’s not the hardest thing to comprehend. I understand it’s not the technically correct term, but it is a well-known term that’s frequently used in gaming communities.

“…but I think I can safely say that those people aren’t dumb enough to blame a program for lag over the internet.”

I wouldn’t really blame Kaillera for lagging, if you want to get totally technical about it. I’d blame the server or the amount of people on the server or the fact that you can only set your connection quality to “Good” if you wish to play with other people on the server (this is the case on Emularena). It is a well known fact that certain services/games play better online than others. Play regular Quake 3 online with 100+ ping and then play on Quake 3 CPM with 100+ ping and tell me there’s not any difference. I never said that you should blame the program for your lag over the internet, as that’s due to your internet traffic and your ISP. You can, however, blame a program or service for how poorly it deals with your latency.

“It doesn’t really tell me anything because my experiance with kaillera as an user is the same and I am sure I’m not the only one.”

For me, Kaillera is just plain unplayable. My Kaillera experience was a lousy one, and I just couldn’t stand it. I played Smash 64 online on the Emularena server, and even with my 15 ping vs. another person’s 15 ping and the input delay set to 1 (the lowest the server would allow), it was still too slow. Poporu is nothing at all like that, and ideally, we could have all the Kaillera people playing their Poporu-playable games on Poporu.

“I’m not retarded. I tried to sign up with assistance and it still took something like 45 minutes. I also don’t like the idea of using someone else’s SSN (imagine someone in Korea using yours) even if I’m not directly ripping them off.”

It takes awhile, but 45 minutes is a stretch. And there are people who will do it for you, like someone else mentioned, if you just can’t figure it out. I’d be willing to do it, I can create them in about 5 minutes or so. Other people are probably even faster. And about the SSN: you’re not ripping them off directly OR indirectly OR in any way imagineable. It’s harmless.

“If you like poporu that’s cool, but don’t make it out to be as easy as 1,2,3.”

Really, it’s pretty much that easy. If you would join #poporu on EFNet, any problems you have with it can be figured out in minutes and you’ll be fine. I’ve gotten kids from school into this who don’t have nearly the computer knowledge that I do, and they’re fine. It’s kind of weird at the beginning, but if you read the guide and play for just a day, you’ll be fine.

“Translate the goddamn thing to English and start advertising.”

That’s what the guide is for, friend.

34

nevermind

35

I have no intention of starting a flame war here. This is vary similar to the windows vs linux issue. I think half the people don’t even know what linux really is and more importantly, more than 70% could not care less. I am not going to go into any discussion about how its not as flexible and beneficiant as windows for the average end users yet and I like linux. People are people. If things worked the way you think they did, you wouldn’t have seen a single commercial on tv and you would not have English translations of those popular comic books that came out of japan or whatever. You would not have french translators in french branches of german hotels. Because they would only attract germans who understand germany living in france. And despite giving out a pamphlet of all the german words used and their meaning, I doubt you would attract many frenchmen.

Its still too vague. “internet” come from inter-networked networks. And code need not mean source code. Anyone could easily perceive it as a code to access their bank account online or password for downloading stuff over a particular SMS network. If you care to google the word, I’m sure you will find some examples. Someone could even abbreviate it for something like “Network Code of Conduct or whatever.”

Well, it appears that you don’t even know how much delay it adds when you play on good instead of something like LAN on kaillera. I guess I was wrong to ever consider your opinion of kaillera. And about your Q3 bs, “In FPS, there is an intelligent central server that knows everything like player’s positions, map geometry, guns and their capabilities and what does what. The clients send asynchronous commands and server decides whats good and whats bad and their order.” So it can make judgments on user’s later input and send results to people. Users wont die or loose life before server tells them to regardless of what its animating on your screen. But How do you expect your game of kof to do that? So you got hit and died and the other guy with 200ms more ping than you happened to punch as well and you should have died as well so its a double K.O.? SO you can argue with you friend that you won first? Its synchronization has totally different motto. Kaillera cant send messages like “player 1 died.” So you die…it shows you win and 200 ms later…the result changes to Double K.O.? Ever wondered how retarded the match would turn into? How do you expect an emulator to do that as kaillera only sends and receives what emulator gives it? It would have to hack the game right? And how do you expect it to do that for all the games it emulates?

Using fake id is harmless. But impersonation is against the law.

Have you ever had a foreign girlfriend where you needed to use a foreign dictionary every time she said something? How long did it take you to break up? Now I don’t know many people who would wanna try something like that. Trust me, koreans didn’t use english version of kaillera when they did.

36

Well, imagine a tv show invites you to their program and the host asks you “I heard your thing is only 2 inches, is that correct?” Would you use the word “thing” or something else? up to you right? If you wanna look good you would use it but wont matter much if you use anything else. The word thing can mean anything right? And why would he use a technical term and confuse nubs with no networking experience. He probably got asked the question using that word and decided to use it. And why would he put quotation marks around the netcode? Because he does not use that word to describe what the questioner was asking and you’re right…he did not bitch about it to make the company look bad.

37

“About the KSSN: you’re not stealing anything, you’re just using a name to use a free service. Identity theft is a pretty large overstatement.”

You are too.

Do you know what KSSN stands for?

Korean Social Security Number.

How would you like it if some RANDOM GUY uses your Social Security Number, I mean dude, its just for a FREE SERVICE its not like he is STEALING YOUR IDENTIFY (which btw, a KSSN has everything from that guys location, to his sex, to his job, pretty much same here) OR ANYTHING.

38

That’s a really good point…shrug

My experience with private servers are really limited, but if you have a good one I guess, it’s just as good as Poporu. I don’t know how good it would be if there’s more than two people, since when I used it, it was just me and another person I play with.

A nice thing with Poporu is that you don’t get badly screwed by politics, since no one owns the servers. No having to worry about get banned from playing on from an admins server, because he was already pissed and you did a tiny thing that was enough for him to ignite his rage onto you. The worst thing that could happen similarly with Poporu is that certain player(s) don’t allow you to play with them, but of course, you can still play with other players.

And also, it’s doesn’t seem possible to cheat in Poporu, since you can’t set macros. Just a thought.

39

Just a clarification, Poporu does let you set buttons to A+B, B+C+D, etc., which are referred to as macros by most people. I’m gonna assume Clear Sky meant programmable combos and such.

Anyway Poporu’s not for everyone, and I’d rather not have people try to whore it out in any related thread. There is a thread for Poporu, it’s even in this same forum. I put it in my sig. That’s enough for people to be aware of it and decide if they want to use it themselves. If they are interested they’ll try it, if not, they won’t. Don’t worry about people not wanting to try it, it’s their decision.

Now see what happened? This thread was about Last Blade 2, now it’s about netcode, which really has fuck all to do with lb2.

40

“Its still too vague. “internet” come from inter-networked networks. And code need not mean source code. Anyone could easily perceive it as a code to access their bank account online or password for downloading stuff over a particular SMS network. If you care to google the word, I’m sure you will find some examples. Someone could even abbreviate it for something like “Network Code of Conduct or whatever.””

No, it’s really not too vague. I understood exactly what was meant by it the first time I heard it used, and I really don’t understand why you’re overcomplicating it so much. Really. I’ve explained it twice already. You didn’t understand before, and now you do. Let’s move on.

“Users wont die or loose life before server tells them to regardless of what its animating on your screen. But How do you expect your game of kof to do that?”

…I never said that KOF was supposed to be doing exactly what Q3 CPM was doing? I merely said that the online play for both Poporu and Q3 CPM is excellent.

“So you got hit and died and the other guy with 200ms more ping than you happened to punch as well and you should have died as well so its a double K.O.? SO you can argue with you friend that you won first?”

That’s obviously a scrubby excuse. If you have latency issues, that’s your deal. If you choose to play online anyway with your shitty connection, then that’s your own fault. If you choose to bitch after every game about how you would have won if not for your terrible connection, you will be summarily laughed at. Whatever though, that’s irrelevant.

“Have you ever had a foreign girlfriend where you needed to use a foreign dictionary every time she said something? How long did it take you to break up? Now I don’t know many people who would wanna try something like that. Trust me, koreans didn’t use english version of kaillera when they did.”

Your analogy is flawed in the relationship with the foreign girlfriend is a presumably ongoing one in which she makes frequent remarks that you don’t understand. With Poporu, it’s more like having a foreign girlfriend for two days, and then having her transform into a beautiful supermodel that speaks fluent English. The only catch is that because of her beauty, she requires that every once in awhile you spend 20 seconds of your time complimenting her (or in the case of Poporu, if you’re still following, filling up coins).

What it all comes down to is this: there is an already small community that’s divided between Poporu and Kaillera. If there was an abundance of players, it would not be even worth arguing about, but when the player base is this small, it’s a big thing. Kaillera requires the usage of a private server to be playable, it has constant desynchs, you can’t run it in full screen without having an even higher risk of desynching, and it doesn’t have Poporu’s music. Poporu requires just a little bit of your time to become acquainted with and then it’s all smooth sailing.