Got a few more games in last night. On the characters with poor reversal options, properly spaced Jag step on their wakeup is a good option.
Also the timing on going through fireballs is pretty decent, was able just to hop through a random scrubby ryu super without even worrying about it.
For me, King is all about maximizing on the knock down, so I have been going for less large combos and just focusing on getting a good knock down.
Simple hit confirms into qcb punch allows for a good setup afterwards. I am either going for:
a) cross up/fake cross up into magic series. This is good since it leads in to ex convict kick knee loops, or can lead to a meterless tag option.
b) whiff a normal, go for shoulder charge (I find whiffing the normal helps bait something out for counter hit wall bounce, the armour makes this move pretty safe).
c) Jaguar Step -> shenanigans. This option is great if you have meter and are looking to get king out. You can do a followup and then tag cancel out of it for fairly safe pressure.
I am really digging his mixup game, and will continue exploring more options.
Essentially, once I get him in off a tag, I will do one of these options once, then be looking to tag king out back into my point. I do this because I am finding without a hard knockdown, its hard to open people up with king, and a fullscreen king is generally a bad king.
I am going to look into block normals forcing people into high states tonight. I have a feeling cr.fr does/might? In any-case, until we figure some stuff out, I am writing off non ex throws pretty useless, and EX throws as situational once you have your opponent conditioned to your mix ups game. I will use ex giant swing as a punish sometimes if I just want qick easy damage (also has anyone noticed the range on this thing?! its massive!), but I don’t dig how it far it throws the opponent away from king (almost full screen in some situations). When that happens, I suggest switching back to your point to regain meter/momentum/positioning.
King’s grabs aren’t like Other grappler’s where you can use them to tick throw or punish they’re more conditioning tool to use when you have someone pressured into blocking. Though I do have some success usin them in footsies due to the amazing range
I would think its kosher. If you do end up posting it, make a new thread or something, this shit is getting messy fast.
I am starting to do matchup analysis tonight, probably work on a thread this weekend.
I play Hakan as well so I know what you mean. I don’t believe that people are forced standing for a couple of frames on wake up in SF x T :(. I’ve tried to do cammy holigan throw setups that take advantage of that like in SF4 but so far I have never had one work in training mode on a crouching opponent even when they’re just getting up.
Is jag step invincible to grabs? Could be good tech against the other grapplers, baiting out a throw attempt at close range, or maybe even do if you think they are going for a tick grab set up (all this untested, just thinking 'bout stuff and junk)
Right now I’m using Jaguar Step in 2 ways. The first is if I read a fireball and can punish; then it’s :lp: to a full magic series (going to cr.:hp:), ending with EX Konvict to Jaguar Knees if I have meter, just a launcher otherwise. It’s a mixup with possible cross cancel if I’m not punishing, as I THINK it makes it safe. I also believe you can get a fairly massive combo off a groundbounce if you cross cancel it OR you can go into FBP/super/cross art. Otherwise it’s a hard knockdown to mixups on sweep.
How is everyone doing their wakeup game? The command throws simply have such a startup that I don’t like the idea of using them on wakeup as if you guess wrong as well then it’s a full combo coming your way.
When using jag step for this purpose, be careful against ryu. Since he can dash cancel his fireball, I am guessing ryu’s will start conditioning King’s to try and jag step through, then dash cancel for a punish. I am feeling like Jag Step is very risky if you are using it as a guess/read. It works much better on reaction (i.e. over a low forward) or as a mix up tool on your opponents wakeup (high/low game, bait a command grab from grapplers). Once non-king players start understanding the moves properties, they will start spacing them selves properly so that it doesn’t work great as a read.
Wakeup game is not that bad for me. I have just been blocking their ground pressure and being extra patient. If they jump in, blocking is probably your best bet here as well, unless its super obvious where they are landing, in which case I aa counter. Haven’t tried is anti air grab at all. However, once people learn how to exploit wakeup more, I can really see it being a problem for this character. I think it will be important to get king out as soon as possible after he has done his damage in order to avoid getting knocked down.
jaguar step seems pretty decent. timed correctly, even ken’s spd whiffs clean. doing that will defiantly make them scared to push buttons on wake up, unless you know…they just like to mash dp all day.
shoulder charge is good since it absorbs a hit, and feels safe (is it not? not sure on this). If they do push a button, you get the wall bounce into combo.
one set up that has been working well for me is this:
hard knock down -> cross up into :
a) if the cross up hits I get magic series combo into convict kicks knee loop
b) if they block, I think its fair to say they are most likely then going to block low, expecting a block string starting with a low. shining wizard yo.
c) if they are smart, they catch on. good. lows into magic series into either safe trade or ex convict kick into knee loop.
Definitely play alot like SF4 Able, although more footsie heavy. This guy is all about landing high damaging combos and constant mixups.
His main problem is his lack of tools to deal with spacing characters. You really have to study your opponent if you want to beat them. Throwing out random or even insightful high/low command throws are a bad idea unless you know for sure that they’re trying to poke you with a specific attack i.e Shoto crouching mk. or akuma st.rh.
Shoulder Tackle is decent to go through pokes, but is punishable on block. Would be more tempted to use it if it didn’t require a counter hit for wall bounce. A noteworthy tidbit is the fact that you can use Shoulder Tackle as an anti-cross up. However, the opponent has enough time to land and block the hit. Should be used sparingly to scare the opponent from attacking after a cross-up.
All in all his wake-up game is garbage. The only safe option is to block all cross-ups. Would’ve been nice if Jaguar step startup was invincible.
Helpful info :
-Rolling Sabot (st.rh) is godlike as a poking tool and hops over lows. Hits at about half screen.
-Use cr.fp in chains to put opponent in st. position, cancel with ex-convict kick, then link with hop knees. A good example is the 3rd hit of elbow rush hitting a crouched opponent. If they’re crouching, the 3rd hit puts them in major hit-stun, enabling you to follow with cr.mk xx cr.fp xx EX-Convict kick, knee lift.
So the combo look like this : 3rd hit overhead, cr.mk xx cr.fp, knee lift x3, st.fp xx RJB (434 dmg). Not bad for an overhead and using 1 ex bar.
-Shoulder Tackle can combo in corner without wall bounce. Best damage afterwards seems to be cr.mk xx st.fp xx EX-RJB. Super Art will also connect in place of EX-RJB.
AA’s :
-Far distance : st.mk - works very well against ryu j.rh and j.fp.
-Close distance : Cr.fp - the most reliable. St.mp - Best used when opponent is very close in the air / jumps from a close distance. Has a high hitbox and is easy to combo after on CH. Knee lift - you have to time pretty early, but leads to best damage.
Best Cross Cancel damage - knee lift x4, j.fierce xx tag
Best poking chain - st.mk xx cr.fp xx ex-convict kick