Shoulder is great due to its range, good against shoto style low forwards, or if they are throwing plasma at footsie range (something I think people will stop doing in this game in general, to easy to punish for a lot of characters) and leads to great damage if close enough to a wall.
Shoulder and Disgraceful kick seem excellent, especially when CH is charged. CH Shoulder has armor and wall bounces and CH Disgraceful kick crumples for big combo opportunity.
Any one got shoulder counter hit combos the standard 3x knee into ch feirce xx jaguar bomb doesnt seem to work maybe the timing is different
Yeah, I know they have those special properties, I was just wondering how well they work in a real match.
also all the mixups from Jaguar step are very unsafe. I don’t have the frame data, but they’re probably atleast -7. I did some testing. Easy punishes.
I was just doing Cr.HP x Powerbomb. Decent enough damage. You can get the 3 knees but its pretty tough timing. And that option does about the same damage, a little less.
This seems to be a common theme of the knee. it looks cool and is fun to do more reps, but it seems generally more practical to hit confirm into it for less reps, easier execution, and a tad more damage.
I usually just watch the forums for my info… But I’ll say this. His command throw seems really really bad imo. Is it just me?
And as others have said, I do not think you should be playing King as a grappler anyway.
EX versions aren’t bad, but yeah. I’d say their main use will be specifically punishing either high or low block after you’ve spent a while conditioning your opponent to block one way or the other. They seem pretty useless to throw out on a guess.
Disappointing how his ground counter doesn’t affect lows. Would be great for punishing mashers.
never got his kick counter to work what does it counter? also was seeing what is safe on block on jaguar spin atks and nothing really is safe. Lariat will can punished by reversal spd and dp but I could couldnt punish with ryu’s ch strong which is 4 frames (im just using ae data it may be different in this game) this leaves me to believe lariat is -3 on block his overhead is at least -8 and sweep is around the same ball park.
He can counter mid/high with f PP or airborne attacks (including SRKs) with f KK
I just bought the guide, I can answer questions anyone has about frame data. It’s pretty decent, but missing some very needed tech that we’ve already found (such as having to go into ex Konvict Kick after a jump in if they crouch).
As to canceling to moves; the only “safe” special moves, defining safes as -2 or better, is the EX Konvict Kick at +3 on block. However, if you can cancel into his counters it might be an interesting way to defeat reversals; do the PP if you expect a SRK, KK if you think it’ll be high/mid. Spend the meter for an EX Tomahawk (which is invincible to strikes) if you think they’ll go low.
All his Jaguar Step moves are very punishable, although with proper spacing it can be tougher to punish the sweep.
Going to have to work his Shoulder Tackle into my repertoire; causes a wall bounce on counterhit and has a hit of armor, so it seems decent. Charging his special is pretty useless as opposed to juggling, but charging for the counterhit on that or Disgraceful Kick’s crumple might work.
Canceling into a naked counter makes me feel…uncomfortable. If they press nothing, your fucked. If it does work, only once until they wisen up against someone who is smart. Going to try and see if there is a way to OS the counter, as that would be very useful and nice very nice Indeed
Edit. clearly i am not smart. i guess no wall bounce here just a tag.
[media=youtube]SaM0lUVrrt0[/media]
39:20 of the video. interesting extensions tho
Iswhen u connect with a counterhit do all moves in Tue combo use ciunterhit properties? Like can i charge for counterhit and do a combo into knees that goes into the shoulder and get the wallbounce? On the levelupyourgane reveal they showed a combo that had knees into wallbounce and i can’t replicate that effect
Found that a forward jump fierce is an instant over head on taller characters such as balrog and sagat
Issue with the combos there is that you can get more damage from 2 bar just by canceling early into super, or 3 bars with your Cross Art. Now a single bar opens up possibilities via EX Konvict Kick off a magic series. Hell, all your EX moves are awesome either for gaining invincibility or going into upknee juggles. That said, I see pretty much no reason to every use the normal RAS outside of canceling a close or low poke when you don’t want to magic series or spend the meter on an EX Konvict Kick. The EX version might be useful for blowing through moves, but it doesn’t become invincible until frame 3 so it’s risky.
I feel like your reversal options are your EX Command throws, but you need to guess correctly or else you eat another full combo.
Note: Your Upknees will connect on some larger characters even if they crouch I think. Needs more testing
After the counter hit fwd lk+mp just follow up with cr.hp into RJB
So, this is a question. I am a Hakan main in SSF4, and a big part of Hakans game is using his 360k which is a throw that only grabs standing characters just like Kings command throw in situations where it cannot normally be crouched. We created precise setus for opponent wakeup, and lately discovered many normals on hit also put the opponent in situation where the 360k was uncrouchable.
So my question is, are there any setups for king like this? OR does anybody know if this game is even like SF4 where you are forced stand for a couple frames on wakeup, and it takes a few frames to crouch normally? I tried to find setups earlier today but got no luck, it would help if I knew in how many frames Kings standing command grab started up in, so if somebody could at least help me with that that’d be great!
People should go into the lab and discover stuff if this is possible. It could be a solid way to land that risky command grab!
That is a good point. I wonder if the opponent is considered to be locked in the state they were in when you inputted the grab? I remember when King was shown around way back when something along those lines was said. Would be interesting to see as it would make using his grabs useful as opposed to having a horribly skewed risk reward. If this is the case, what does an airborne opponent count as?
Thought to test out: tag canceling his overhead after a Jaguar Step. Ground bounces can be comboed fairly well I believe, and I wonder if it makes it safe or not? Also, I know the last 6 recovery frames of Jaguar Step are vulnerable, do these happen before the move comes out or are you invincible from after 6 frames into Jaguar Step to 10 frames of the startup of your overhead?
Thats not exactly what I mean, I don’t think. I wasn’t totally clear.
For example with Hakan after I get a spd knock down I can do F.hk and then do his 360k (a move that only grabs standing like Kings command grab) and it is uncrouchable because in the SF4 engine there is forced stand on wakeup and the grab grabs the opponent just as they stand up.
Alternatively I can do something like link into f.lk and then do 360k and the same it is uncrouchable because in SF4 it takes a few frames to crouch and I’m left positive enough (if I cancel into the 360K) where they cannot crouch the overhead throw.
If crouches and normal wakeups are the same in SFxT as they are in SF4 this same idea should be possible with King. So my question is, does anybody know if crouching is the same in this as in SF4? An easy way to tell would be to get a cammy player to do her hooligan throw setups from SF4 and see if they still work, as she has a move that has the same idea. And if its the same, we can figure out setups for King.
I’ll go into the lab and test more later.
Ah, I get what you are saying. I just recall an old video from before the game was released talking about King’s command throws and it said something along the lines of not being able to stand once he inputs his Tomahawk or something along those lines.
Someone posted earlier on how many frames it had on startup. I think it was 11? Anyways I usually do it right before they get up so the first thing they get hit by is my throw if they didn’t crouch.