really a damage nerf is all iori needed to be a totally fair character
rekkas just do retarded damage, everything else is fine
Mai seems to me a better counter to Iori than Goro, from my personal experience using Mai as a main and having to face countless Ioris and Goros. I can’t backup this with a matchup chart, as I have no such information. But from my experience (I may be wrong, people correct me here if I’m bullshitting) basically far standing B and A to a lesser extent fuck up Iori’s rushdown a lot, and corner means rape. Mai controls the air pretty well and her offense (poking, Ryuu-enbu pressure) is very safe, which IMO makes that a hard matchup for Iori as several of his usual powerful options (rushdown, mixup, punishing) aren’t (as) effective.
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me could shed some light in this issue?
I don’t know if you have a different interpretation of that expression, but by ‘Sirlin job’ I understand a rebalance by powering the lower tiered characters and taking out or toning down the most abuseable stuff of the tops, instead of the traditional and lazy “let’s nerf everyone that’s good and leave everyone else untouched” balance, a kind of balance that ends up making a boring game.
So far, SNK seems to share a similar philosophy with Sirlin; slight toning downs for abuseable stuff from the top tiers (I know Chizuru’s c.C has less priority and we already covered Goro’s OTG combo), while everyone else seems to be getting upgrades (Leona getting an useful Eye Slasher, plus she can combo after a b, f + K anywhere in the screen instead of just in the corner, Mature’s Decide can now followed by a Heaven’s Gate, Lucky has new moves and combo potential, Athena has a new scary DM, etc).
To balance Iori, I personally would de-prioritize (and / or make it more vulnerable - or maybe make it do a regular knock down instead of an unrollable one?) his Aoi Hana (the rekkas) a bit so it’s not such an all-purpose, safe move. That’s his only really abuseable move IMO.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4894293&postcount=1
Check video links to see for yourself. Compared to random Brian Battler shenanigans(I was a victim of that 10-win streak lol), Iori rekka damage was pretty manageable, I thought.
Very nice Arlieth…now when I hold these 98UM tournies at EVO World and stuff in the future you will be entering right??
:lovin:
Examples? I’ve had 98 on Dreamcast for a long time but I don’t know much about the super high-level play (I didn’t know about the fireball glitch until it was mentioned here).
That’s the same as normal 98, Iori’s DP is like Ken’s fierce DP in that it doesn’t do hardly anything as an anti-air
where do i start!!!
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STUPID counter hit damage, i hate how high counter damage is especially when maxed, you might say yeah it’s a counter hit thus you deserve the reward, while i say yes it’s just too too high, i hate how certain moves take the absolute piss with the added damage, like benimarus DP with kick, ralfs standing C, kyos D,P daimons D, any fucking thing by chang lol
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Extra hits on counter hits, this is fucking insane on it’s own maybe just maybe i could live with it but then coupled with the stupidly high CH damage it just takes the cake, things like kims flash kick with B again kyos DP, there’s other things i’m just quickly running through them
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Certain characters have stupid cross ups, this is a real bee in my bonet, something i was really hoping to be readressed in um, i hate how some characters have GODLY cross ups (chris, iori,takuma, heidern, kyo shermie) now that’s ok but at least give other characters that option to, and if not give them something else to help there opponant wake up game, some characters cross ups are just far to obscure ryos chizurus yashiros
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Grapplers !!! especially grapplers that miss there grabs when have gotten behind, i dont know how many times i’ve gotten behind or even in front of somebody and gone for a grab and have it whiff, now dont give me shit about being within range i was right next to them!!!
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grabbing reversals, i i know it kinda looks odd one i am moaning about grapplers missing there grabs, well now i’m moaning about grabbing reversals especially ones that have good priority like kyos ioris ryos DP
those are a couple of things that bug me about 98, well things I would have liked to have seen adressed in UM, but that’s me, i’m sure other people have other issues, in fact i would be quite interested to hear about them. well as long as they not “OMG NERF HIM” or " POWER THAT SHIT UP" be more specific
nerf chris’s fucking slide and jump cd please
virtua_leon just get stright to the point and say “take all the fun out”
ioris dp will only do all the hits as aa if it is a counter-hit, in this situation it is very good
heiderns crossup is not godly, because it is very hard to combo from unless the opponent is crouching, in fact heidern needs to be buffed a lot
for chris make his run stand up, which will alleviate his horrible countermatches (all characters with a high fireball) a bit, i think that is much more important to the game as a whole than slide or jump cd
Vids for the loketest/tourney are up, you can find them here
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=151319
CH damage is something that doesn’t really need a change, except maybe on some DM’s. I’ve gotten 3 hits off Chin’s DM as a counter hit. It would take away some fun stuff like Yamazaki counter into A snake arm or super. (I’m ok with these glitches because it’s counterable in any situation, you can also roll the sadomaso if you have reversal timing- Emil’s done it in lag once on me)
The crossups- the only real problematic one is Iori’s, and that has a counter if you know it’s coming. One change I would definitely make to UM- switch the damage Iori takes with the damage Billy takes, it would nerf an overpowered char and buff a bottom tier character.
(Iori would go down to upper-mid if he took 20% more damage, and that’s where you want to balance people out, Billy would go up to mid- and yes, Billy does take about 15-20% more damage then Iori)
The grappler issue might be something related to alternate guard- so unsure if that’s taken out. Generally, I’ve found some wonkiness with reversal DP’s in the corner- I wonder if that’s related to the crossup glitch that’s in every KOF and NGBC. (NGBC has the exact same bug)
Grabbing reversals- some reversal moves can’t be grabbed, you just need the ones with instant startup. DPs aren’t instant in 98 in most cases, but most chars have something instant. You just have to remember it isn’t SF.
Virtual_Leon’s complaints are legitimate. Character balance > your favorite character’s tier standing. If addressing these issues means taking all the fun out then you should be playing MvC2.
hahaha what the fuck does that mean? the top tiers are the funnest characters to play in 98 and i think most would agree. exploiting powerful moves is more fun than working around shitty moves. the top tier just need very slightly nerfing and everyone else should be buffed up to slightly below their level (so theres a margin of error in case some unforeseen thing turns out totally overpowered)
games aren’t supposed to be fun: they’re dangerous.
…broken-ass Shingo must come back to top. It is my Christmas wish. Sure, the Kyo clone wasn’t nerfed, but heck, he guard-crushes easily. Is he actually banned from tourney play?
i disagree with that, i dont think the top tier chars in 98 are fun to play as or fun to fight against at all. a lot of top tier stuff is outright braindead, of course its been a decade so everyone can get around the bs by now sometmes which is why my team is comprised of mid tiers or upper mid. i get tired of seeing iori/goro/o chris (you get the point) abuseable bs in 98 but that aint the players fault, that is more so the engines fault.
glad the top tiers got those tonedowns - while everyone got upgraded and iori got that nerfed damage etc, itll probably make for a more balanced 98 than the original (im hoping)
as for unblockable fb bug - it didnt make iori any more broken than he already was in 98, nor did he really rely on it. his fb speed was too fast and high priority as is, even though hes top tier, i didnt mind him having the bug, that was the least of his things to complain about imo.
low tier/mid tier chars needed that FB bug more.
and disclaimer, i use athena. shes hardly top tier.
I agree with this…
And beware fuckers…EX Geese has my name written all over it…unless he gets banned expect to see Dark Geese using him…
:nunchuck:
EX Geese,O.Chris, and for the 3rd EX King/Iori/Ralf/Daimon/EX Mai/Krauser/Chizuru
Chizuru is hella fun to me, so is Kyo, IMO. I think that the problem isn’t that much how abuseable and braindead (I definitely disagree that the tops in '98 are braindead -they need some tone-downs though, of couse, but still-) the tops are, but that almost everyone uses Iori / Chris (not top, BTW)/ Goro, and you get tired of playing against the same stuff over and over.
I’d definitely take random generic Iori #1000 or even Goro over a defensive Ralf or a Chang.
I only play O. Chris because hes the closest thing to KOFXI Kula…Thats really the only reason I play him…
chizuru and kyo are fun, but i know some people consider them top tier, some dont. I’m not a authority on 98 but i always through they were upper mid tier, not top tier. But I agree they are fun.
I have last years Tougeki 07 players guide, not that Japan is the utmost authority on 98 or anything but it does have a tier list for every game here. If you like I can take a photo real quick of it. I’m fairly sure they got China’s input on it considering they are featured in the players guide. I remember someone translated it for me but that was in the summer and I can’t read Japanese heh.
I just want to thank the people who put info up on the wiki, because it’s been helping a noob out like me to learn the engine and whatnot.
I’m not sick of the Iori/Goro/OChris yet, but I’m fairly new to the game, it’ll get me eventually. I play O Chris, but it’s because I think his combos look cool…and Iori because I’m a noob and I know him already.