Well i’m mediocre so far at best. but i’ve got, maybe 9 out of 10 of Jin’s B&Bs down, and I’m pretty good applying pressure. No issues with step, no issues with corner combos, good 300 damage tag in combos etc etc.
The main issue I have with Jin is anti airing, which i’m feeling is much better with kaz. Maybe I’m wrong. Oh also, Jin doesn’t have a really good overhead to combo off of, and shun matsatsu 2nd hit will whiff after c.LK, c.LP. Hate that shit… but anyway…
if I played these two together, what do you think… kaz first? I feel Jin is great once the opponent is already knocked down or corndered and he’s able to pressure with c.LP and c.MP (+7 on block I think). But i’m slowly finding Kaz to deal initial damage better. I don’t know. I’m desperately searching for a compliment to my Jin… tried gramps, hugo, and King. still feel like my game is lacking…
So I hate to be a TLDR guy (I did read the basics thread a bit,) but I need some help learning Kazuya. I play Heihachi and he’s similar enough I thought I’d carry over pretty easily so I can rock team Mishima (boy was I wrong.)
Anti-airs are almost as bad as Heihachi’s (what do you guys do on wakeup to avoid jumping assholes?)
What solid BnBs don’t require me to mist-step cancel? I’m really, really REALLY bad at that motion and I can’t get the instant uppercut at all.
What are you guys doing in footsie range? I like his cr.lk linkability, now if I could only buffer mist-step…
What target combos are worth learning? (I only use 1 with heihachi and its sparingly)
I have a friend who likes to turtle, and sadly is pretty good at it so yesterday I tested some safe on block pressure for when I get him in the corner. We often end up crouching against eachother with him in the corner. Yes he is VERY boring to fight against.
Tried these against Ryu. Anyone know any better character to use for testing what is safe? Tried different punishes. Donkey Punch was the only thing that could punish some moves so Kazuya might have many more safe moves against characters with less range.
c.mk > Devastator seems safe on block as long as second punch hits. Which it almost always does.
c.mk > DGF seemed punishable but it was tight.
c.mk > Slaughter High kick is safe on block if kick hits. So not against crouching opponents. If opponent mashes buttons to punish after first hit the kick connects.
c.mk > Roundhouse Rising Sun > hk was safe due to the push back.
c.mp also works on all of these, s.mp as well. Don´t know about s.mk.
If c.mk/c.mp whiffs the next move wont come out so buffer away.
Back s.hk is safe with enough distance. Hits overhead.
Forward s.lk is safe on block but punishable while moving forward of course. Pretty quick though and hits overhead.
As we talked about earlier s.lp > s.mp is a great hit confirm into Slaughter Hook. Got the timing pretty good yesterday but no idea if I can do it with onling lag, or in a real fight while stressed. Next on list. Learn to do Devastator instead of just going for block when blocked. It seems safe and pushes back. Now how to get in to s.lp range…
On wakeup I guard or roll. Please help me find someting else =/
Combo into Slaughter Hook > c.hp > DGF/Super/Cross Art. To combo into Slaughter Hook do s.lp > s.mp to hit confirm. Or on jumpin j.hp/j.hk > s.hp. On punish start with s.hp.
c.mk to see what I wrote a bit up.
Back s.lk > lp > mk > lk is the only one I use. Tap Back s.lk > lp which is safe on block and continue if they hit.
EDIT: Deeeejay XL below pointed out you can end with lp instead of lk for an overhead making the opponent have to guess what you are going to do basically. Did not know that. Still a risk they guess correct and you eat a combo.
Is anything I write wrong then please correct me =)
His AAs are c.HP and s.MK imo, they’re not amazing but they’re there. Apparently WGF/EWGF is a decent AA (i think EWGF is real solid, but that is challenging) along with dragon uppercut (mist + LP)
any combos into LP slaughterhook, C.hp xx (insert special/super) However I advise taking the time to get comfortable with mist/WGF (possibly even EWGF) No offense, but don’t be lazy. Mist/WGF is incredibly important for Kaz players, I feel like you shouldn’t play him unless you put the lab time in :\
C.mk and c.hk (both 6f start-up) are both amazing pokes, whiff punishing with c.mk xx WGF/EWGF is just delicious
B+ LK, LP, MK ~ LP/LK. The LP follow up is an overhead, while the LK is a low.
LP, MP, MK, LK is pretty good also. The MK is a low and the 4th hit (LK) is an overhead. However if you see the MK hit you can chain it into HP and either launch, or cancel into EX slaughterhook
Trying to get down EWGF, or even buffering mist-step from standing normals is becoming eerily similar to when I my arcade got vanilla iv back in 08 and I was struggling with viper (at a dollar a game.) A few hundred losses and a few blown paychecks later I eventually ragequitted and settled on Sagat and not giving a fuck. Now I would not like that to be the case here because I legitimately enjoy playing the Mishimas.
If I was trying to do a combo like crossup mk xx cr.mp xx LP slaughterhook > Cr.HP xx WGF > St.HP xx spinning demon
From what I understand this combo wouldnt work unless my Cr.HP xx WGF was an EWGF, right?
Yeah I thought about this. I block a lot and try to walk him to the corner gradually. Dash forward each time you block his far fierce, or maybe mist step for even greater distance gain…my secondary is a shoto so if I get a decent life lead I start laming it out just like he does from full screen, and they eventually teleport to me.
Well Kaz is my main right now, i play a little jin but not that much. I do have a good understanding of the game as of now.
Jin has some really good tools for pressure, his normals are probaly better then Kaz’s his crouching LP leaves you at +8 on hit and +4 on block. Which is a bit better then Kaz. they share the same advantage with Cr.Mp though +9 on hit +5 on block.
But that’s about all that’s the same. Jin is probably a little easier to move around with on high level play, he has a fire ball and a good defensive tool in Mental awareness. Making things a little easier. But he can really only get a good amount of damage with the help of a partner or in the corner
Then there is Kazuya who has his cancelable mist step, although it gets you close and threw nearly anything, it will lose to any low attack. His rising uppercut is only -1 on block though so it is still a way to get in and pressure, and if it lands you can combo from it anywhere on the screen Kaz uses his cr.mp for pressure and some pretty good command normals. But his greatest weakness is his lack of defense. The only real defensive tool he has is his EX Demon Gods Fist. (QCF+PP) This move’s regular version has 2 frames of armor… which isnt very good but can blow threw a few things. But the EX version has… well i dont know the exact number of hits yet, but i feel like trying it against Ryus super cause i havent found a single move it doesnt blow threw. He has no armor on start up though so you must do it pre-emptive. And it is extremely, extremely unsafe on block and since it already cost a meter to use it is going to cost another to tag in a partner and make things safe. And you have to do it on the first hit of EX Demons god fist, because your opponent can punish both characters if you tag in off of the rising uppercut (Demon gods fist ender.)
Also id say Jin then Kaz. I havent found any really terrible match-ups for Jin yet. and when he opens your opponent up and goes in for a combo. he has a very good ender with HP median line. Which you can tag Kaz in for a bar and really lay down the hurt, especially if you have a little extra meter laying around to extend Kaz’s combo.
Which would bring me to another point for team comp. Id say have Jin play as the battery and build up some meter while dealing pretty nice damage, pressure, mixups. Then when you land a hit bring Kaz in with a couple power gems, a regular extended combo from Kaz alone could deal 450+!! and with power gems i dont even want to get into detal.
Also both these characters have devastating corner combos Jins doing about 300 dmg with no meter and Kaz doing a lil more then 400… 464 if you have a extra bar for extension. im not sure how much it would do together but for a single bar just for the tag cancel you could do… a corner doomsday combo ;]
i do not understand how people cancel their normals into a mist step i can to S.HP into mist step but thats it i was watching floe mist step off of Cr.Mk with jin how can i do something like this with kaz?
Just do it faster or press df+MK, (neutral), d, df to get the Mist Step after crouching normals. df works as a forward input of the Mist Step in this game.
Damn… I REALLY like Kazuya’s Mist Step into Rising Uppercut, it makes characters like Ryu, Ken, Guile, Cammy, Bison and a lot more characters to be safe for Kazuya when they get up from the ground, I mean… they can’t do ANYTHING in retaliation, the Rising Uppercut beats them all, if they guard - you’re safe, if it connects they’re open for a combo, and in some cases it dodges below them leaving them open for punish.
The only thing they can do is forward roll, but it still leaves Kazuya in a safe position… this is great
It doesn’t work against all characters (like Rufus’ EX kick or grapplers) but I’m pretty sure it’s safe against the majority of the characters, it’s a great thing to remember.
All i know is it’s -1 on block, so as long as you don’t whiff it you are fine
edit: Unless like they do a raging demon or pandora super you, then no one is safe…
