Strictly my opinion on Cammy:
+1 to the Fei matchup, maybe even higher (6-4)
-0.5 to the Chun matchup (4-6)
+1 to the Bison matchup, this depends on the users reflexes (5-5)
Thelo - interesting you have the Guile matchup worse than Honda. Did you by any chance see my anti-Guile rant in the Guile thread lol? I honestly feel like Guile is worse for Cammy, then again I was playing Marsgatti some 10 rounds and he’s just insane. But at least with Honda you can cr. mp the HHS, Front Kick and st. jab the headbutts, and j. mp can shutdown his headbutt and splash if properly timed and spaced. I feel I can control space with Honda since he has no FB, and I’m pretty certain some good Honda players would say I put on a show.
I listed my thoughts on Fei Longs matchups. The ones I listed in Bold are the changes.
Chun Li: To Date, there hasn’t been a Chun Li player I couldn’t beat. The ones I had trouble with in the past I can beat now that I understand the matchup better. Anything she does Fei has an answer to. She has a very hard time dealing with CW’s when trapped in a corner.
Deejay: I still feel this matchup is 6-4 even after playing Afrolegends a bunch of matches! Even perfected him once! Still beat me senseless though…
Cammy: I hate this bitch! Fei’s buffs don’t apply here! :arazz:
The only thing that keeps this match from being a disater is Fei can be annoying by spamming st.LK and Neutral j.LP. It beats out a ton of shit. And if Cammy gets her DP and Super blocked, it’s Big damage for Fei.
The ability to just duck to make CW’s whiff? BULLSHIT!!! :tdown:
Most ratings on this chart aren’t mine, I’m just trying to condense ratings I’ve seen all around the place in one table. So feel free to weigh in with your suggestions / opinions!
“I cannot speak for the accuracy of non-Honda matchups, this is not scientific in any way, and should be used only for educational and entertainment purposes. ;)”
claw ryu sagat and ken stick out like sore thumbs to me.
ryu’s fake fireball and a the shitty dive make it really hard to close the gap.
kens slow fireballs, 1 frame fp dp, and cr.rh for far jumpins make this not so fun.
claw is no WAY 7-3. like really? what does claw do to you? he pokes and hopes you get annoyed. he cant wall dive in this matchup. at all.
sagat is really overrated. st.rh that fat fucks arms all day. situations get funny in the corner though with his goofy ass bounce after the 360.
I dislike decimals too. Just round it up to the next number (ex: 6.5-3.5 is 7-3 or 6-4).
According to Thelo’s chart, this is the tier list:
DJ
Claw
Ryu
Boxer
Honda
Dhalsim/Chun Li
Ken
Sagat/Guile
Cammy/Blanka
Dictator
Fei
Hawk
Zangief
That’s not right. DJ’s too high and Dictator’s too low. Did you average a couple of tier listings Thelo? I think that would give more realistic results.
From a DeeJay players perspective, I think Thelos match up chart for him is pretty accurate. Maybe Boxer is 5-5 instead of 6-5 and I think he does better than 6-4 against Cammy but other than that, I think it looks pretty good. I am also glad to see that vs Blanka is 6-4.
1.) No Aqua… that’s called justice… sweet sweet justice… she can suck against everyone else but watching you wiff CW’s makes my day :lol: (Facing Aqua really helped me discover that against Fei. Now he’ll throw 69999 st. LK since it beats drill and TK…)
2.) I have to disagree with Noriega on this one and still say Honda is worse, but this is could be due to my play style. I can keep most guiles on the defensive… Honda WANTS to be on the defensive… NOT GOOD.
3.) Oh and maybe I don’t know the matchup, but I personally have a really tough time with Gief. I don’t know if the gief’s I play know the matchup better than I do (entirely possible), if I’m less skilled (entirely possible), or if the matchup count is wrong (7-3 for Cammy seems really REALLY high…)
Thelo could you please update the list if you got the time? I always wanted to start this but never did. It’s good to get more concrete.
I speak for DJ:
Against Rog it’s more 6-4 in Rogs favor
I can see no serious advantage against M.B. => 5-5
Fei is probably 6.5-3.5 in DJ favor (good Feis show why it’s not 7-3)
Guile and Ken have a slight advantage over DJ to me (5.5-4.5 in both cases but I could agree on 5-5 too)
On the absolutely highest level (and that’s what counts) Blanka feels more like 7-3 for DJ (Bruce Askew did two very risky low rh that made him loose against Antonio Diaz @ 5on5 Team Tournament @ evo)
I think this is more like 5.5-4.5 at least in deejay’s favour, i would even say 6-4 at a stretch. Deejay definitely has an advantage. Upkicks, especially LK upkick reversal shuts down a lot of bison’s options for closing space, j.Jab is a very safe way of covering against a lot of aerial attacks from bison, his crossup options and jumping attacks are a real headache for bison when he get close, (even more than most other characters), his fireball game owns the horizontal space, his cr.MK has ridiculous priority, far st.HK is a great poke, and he generally has a lot of answers for almost all the stuff dictator can do. The only way dic gets ahead in this matchup is preying on mistakes by the opponent, and using risky shenanigans that are easily counterable if you know how, and that doesn’t really factor into the character’s capabilities in a tier list.
If a good deejay (like yourself) plays this matchup well it can be a total shutout. If deejay gets an opening off a jump in he can really capitalise (you can get 80-100% damage from a crossup combo-dizzy-combo FTW) and if he takes a life lead and turtles down well, it really feels like an uphill battle for bison to get back in the game. Deejay’s offence is at least as scary as bison’s and he has a solid defence too which bison doesn’t.
We play this matchup often and i feel like i have to work a lot harder than you do to keep the sets roughly even. I need to be on form or i’m in for some frustrating games.
Do you have any specific ratings for Deejay or Dictator that you disagree with? The “total” score for each character is strictly the sum of its matchup ratings, so that’s where you should start to look.
The Honda numbers are mostly my own opinion. The rest of the numbers I’ve just stolen from various places, and of course all are open to discussion.
Here are some potential changes to the chart and their sources - can any players weigh in on these?
Mackdaddi: I already told you that it’s not that simple. I played other Bisons too and am pretty sure the advantage (if there is one) is not that great. Bison can counterpoke (cr.mk, st.hk, scissor kick), tick throw (De Maverick- st.lk-st.lk-st.lk option select towards + fierce for example) and dizzy DJ effectively and fast. Bison is really not helpless against a good DJ (unless cornered, but that’s same for DJ).
@Bruce: Can you tell me why you think DJ has an advantage over Boxer? You can’t do a single mistake or it’s basically game over. Balrog has so many offensive options and DJ has to be very careful with his counters because Rog has the ability to just kill you for one miss-timed/miss-guessed move.
No one thinking Fei has only 6.5 against DJ? cr.mp+MO+upkicks are very very good, but if Fei guesses right he has the tools to get his dangerous offense going.
btw: forget about DJ-Guile and DJ-Ken, 5-5 is probably the closest (I heard Ken is better online because of lp srk bs)
I’ll wait to see what JigglyNorris thinks of them. Since you two guys are probably the main T. Hawk players, I’ll probably just average the two scores, and maybe nudge it a bit in the direction that other players feel is right in their vs Hawk matchups (i.e. what Damdai thinks of Ken vs Hawk, etc.)
For what it’s worth, I think that Chun v Hawk is no worse than 5-5…I think it’s 6-4 Chun. It was in ST, and it’s an even easier match now, so how would it get better for Hawk if it’s easier?
