I don’t think anyone is really sleeping on Honda besides me (and I play him!). Most people think I’m crazy when I say he’s around Mid or upper mid(I think is more accurate). I really think people are going to find ways to work around him. Dealing with him as a fireballer seems like dealing with a less lethal Balrog. It takes some work (as opposed to being easy-mode), but I think the advantage is definitely still with the fireballers. He’s lost a lot of lethality with oichio and quick dizzies. I think he’s really good and improved a lot, but I think he’s still very manageable (besides for Cammy, wtf), and a lot of other characters have gotten better.
Though I would not at all be surprised if I were wrong on this. I haven’t played anything I’d consider a really good Honda yet.
So far just from the people I have played Honda and Gief are somewhere near the top. Honda jab headbutt going through projectiles again can not be over looked. This was his one big problem in ST and it has been taken away. He can push pressure strings and command throw setups with little risk. It also takes away alot of the offense for projectile prone characters such as Guile, Dee Jay, Ryu and Sagat.
Yeah Chun was always difficult for Blanka. Played against NKI’s Chun enough times to realize that. Doesn’t help that on top of her air normals all beating his that she has a fireball to zone him on the ground too. TBH I just look to get a knockdown from her and go from there. I don’t really even know that matchup too well.
Cammy and Honda seem to be difficult as well. Cammy basically just switched specials that are real safe against Blanka (spiral arrow instead of cannon spike) and her DP when used well is still tough to deal with.
Honda I think is a bit less difficult now that it seems to be harder for him to punish Blanka balls. I’m not even sure if he can. Maybe I just haven’t fought one that can punish him yet but if Blanka balls truly are safer against Honda that helps him in the match a lot. j.LK or j.MK still beat headbutts and you can still play all kinds of shenanigans on him once you cross him up. Plus you no longer die once he command grabs you. I think that matchup is a lot better.
Quite a few characters seem to be at that power grouping of high tier or better. That’s why I said high tier and top tier are gonna be bigger then before. And alot of the lower tiers had most of their bad match-ups removed thanks to the rebalancing. Only time will tell if new bad match-ups will pop up to hold some of these characters back.
Yeah Sirlin did a really good job even though I don’t agree with everything he did. (Then again who does?) The tiers are more compressed, and I think it’ll be a lot like ST in the sense that there will be people who will be able to OWN with low tiers. If it works like Sirlin intended then those people will have an easier time.
Putting in my voice of little experience with ST, it seems to me like the best way to build a tier list would be to start seeing how things look for the people with the fewest changes, and work your way outwards to the people who have received the most radical transformations. Everyone knows Ryu hasn’t moved much - how could he? By the same token, though, we don’t really have any strong notion of where Honda is, since, at least by my reckoning, he’s an entirely different character now. If we work with the basic skeleton ST gives us for the obvious characters, then we should be able to complete the picture pretty quickly. It should help us pan out some niches for the characters we know less about.
On a different note, I’m skeptical about ranking any of the previously low-tier characters still in the low tier just yet, particularly Fei and Cammy, since both of them require some real rethinking into how they’re played. Fei isn’t just shooting for chickenwing lockdown anymore, and Cammy’s tools are all actually viable.
Rather than decide the tiers, can we decide how we will label the tier listings? Some go with standard Low, Mid, High. Some do the whole GPA thing with ABC. I want us to take a chance and make up cooler titles like. Gnarly, Mondo, and Bodachious instead. But if we end up being pussy-conservative again, and roll with the whole GPA tier listings, can we make the highest tier 3 Ss instead of say, one or two. Triple S tier is way cooler than just S or double S.
Can someone explain to me why people are saying (not in this thread) Gief is top. I just want an explanation of what it could be that people see about him that is so frightening. Roundhouse- Tick SPD?
i dunno man, guiles flashkick can hit all sorts of shit it couldn’t before, and if controllable fierce +jab headbutt bring him in line with fireball characters… i dunno the rest feel the same to me too though. I still don’t feel blanka has gained much vs certain characters, it’s not like random blanka ball helps him get in directly which was his problem. Still have to mess with that rainbow roll and see if i can get it to work for me!