So… wait… are you guys saying that Ryu never actually tapped into SnH because he was salty when he lost to Sagat in SF1?
Wait, how the hell does Adon know about Akuma?
News travels fast in Street Fighter High…
With the way Sagat talks about Ryu in his Alpha 3 prologue and ending, SF2 ending, and SF4 ending, a rematch with Ryu most likely never happened. You could easily say “it wouldn’t count” to Sagat, but it not being mentioned in *some *form seems odd. He appears to still be focused on their initial battle rather than anything else. He even says he’s spent so much time obssessing about defeating Ryu to the point where it no longer matters to him.
The Alpha 3 battle with Psycho empowered Ryu would make much more sense in the context of Sagat turning a new leaf and being done with Bison for good, though it’s hard to tell how Alpha 3 played out at this point. His Alpha 2 ending just seems out of place.
Adon may just be referring to the fact that Akuma and Ryu use the same general power of Hado. Akuma and Ryu have always used the same power and style (just contrasting sources). It would be peculiar for a character like Adon (who had been included with the basic Alpha cast) to be referencing a component of a character that had to be added on to a updated version of said game, and officially in the next iteration in the series.
When watching Adon’s SFZ2 ending (Japanese) he makes no such reference to a power, and basically states that Akuma uses the same techniques as Ryu overall.
https://youtu.be/i4hno_uSiD4?t=2m50s
Quote is at 2:50
「 サガット を 倒し た 男 リュウ と 同じ技 を 使う ヤツ だ 」
技-technique, art
OMG I may have to sit back down down, and revert back to my old position @DRW .
All this sitting and standing is hurting my back. Curse you Capcom!
F.A.N.G is also a huge fan of Doublemint gum
Something else I want to know too about Adon that the plot guide mentions: he’s beaten by Ryu with a single SRK. Even though they clearly faced in the original, and Adon had to have lost, why was it by a SRK? The move that would end up being Ryu’s desperation move that scars Sagat does no lingering damage to Adon (albeit knocking him out). That and the fact the guide makes it sound like this was the only attack Ryu uses against him. This flys in the face of what Gouken tells him, and what would eventually occur in the long run. If Ryu just had the mindset to immediately SRK Adon, then why not Sagat, or everyone else that faced him?
The basic narrative going forward was that Ryu had used SRK on Sagat to scar him. We learn that the SRK is a forbidden move by Gouken around the time of his inception. We also learn by that the time of Adon’s return in SFA, he has all but forgotten his defeat at Ryu’s hands (more likely out of pride), but focuses on Sagat’s who had been scarred in the process by a move that Adon withstood unscathed. How could this be? Of course Adon was defeated, but by Shoryuken as well?
But why would Adon rub in his defeat at the hands of Ryu if he himself was defeated by Ryu? Did Adon face Ryu in Alpha 1? Because I’m so sure they fought in SF1.
In Adon’s Alpha 3 story, he seems to be looking for the secrets of the Raging demon. He assumes that Ken trained with Akuma and asks him to show him “that technique”. It was later mentioned during his battle with Bison as well.
When you fight Adon with Akuma, he tells him to show him the Satsui no Hado so he can prove how invincible Muay Thai is. While the original intention in Adon’s ending is to show Ryu and Akuma share the same fighting style, he seems to be informed that Akuma not only wields the SnH, but also the Raging Demon. How? No idea.
I guess the same could be said about Nash knowing that Ryu has history with the SnH. Now that I think about it, Bison knowing about the SnH within Ryu would make even more sense if it was displayed when he fought Sagat. I can’t think of any other reference point where Bison would know.
Adon most likely taunted Sagat about his defeat to Ryu because he idolized Sagat and thought he was invincible. Adon is also an asshole, so that type of behavior is right up his alley.
To chime in on the whole SnH thing…
Utilizing SnH and being consumed by it are two very different things…but one leads to the other. Simply think in terms of “the dark side” of the Force. You can flirt with it and draw on it but keep from being fully consumed by it by renouncing it. This is Ryu’s journey.
Now, as for the events…
It seems most likely that the damage done to Sagat was with a Metsu Shoryuken simply because the Metsu SRK is MEANT to bisect people and tear them open. It is explicitly IMPOSSIBLE to do that kind of damage with the SRK taught to Ken & Ryu by Gouken. Do not make the mistake to think this means that SRK is less powerful…it just works differently. It can end a fight just as easily (just not as fatally).
While getting beat down by Sagat, Ryu tapped into his drive to win at all costs…he gave into the dark side for a moment…and he fueled an SRK with SnH rather than Mu. Without training, he used a Metsu Shoryuken utilizing a chi-method he was not taught. He brushed the roots of the SRK’s fundamentals and its history linked to SnH. This does NOT mean that Ryu was consumed by SnH at all. It doesn’t even meant he was a rage-fueled beast at the moment. Drawing chi can take only a single breath…and, in that breath, Ryu just used SnH. This means LITERALLY NOTHING for his mental well-being because one can use SnH all the time without going off the deep-end. In fact, it is EXPLICITLY SAFE to do so with techniques like the Hadoken, SRK and Tatsumaki…which is why Goutetsu taught them. The amount of SnH they tap do not do psychological damage to those trained in the arts.
Why would it be so strange to Ryu? Simply because it probably was much stronger than what he was used to. Again…Star Wars. SnH, is it really stronger than Mu? No. Faster. Easier. More seductive. That is the struggle. It is WAY easier to simply want to obliterate everything past your fist…and that is what Ryu struggles with. Does being a TRUE martial artist, the pinnacle of combat, the end-all-be-all warrior, mean having to walk an, ultimately, destructive path? SnH says “yes absolutely!” and Mu says “no, not even remotely true”.
Ryu was consumed by SnH when Bison infused him with Psycho Power. What do we know about Psycho Power? It is ALSO the dark side of the Force except for Soul Power instead of Mu. It is evil psychic energy. It is the sibling of SnH. SnH is all about destroying outwardly. Bison’s power though? That is INWARD evil. Greed, megalomania, awesomeness (that…might be wrong?), and egotism…the elevation of the self above all others. SnH and Psycho Power are two sides of the same exact coin. When infused with that power, that selfishness and evil attitude overtaking Ryu’s mind made him, naturally, care only about himself. Psycho Power -> SnH is less than a hop, skip & jump. Temporarily sociopathic from Psycho Power, Ryu became psychopathic via SnH, wanting to destroy-destroy-destroy. Evil Ryu who is, as all will recall, a rampaging MONSTER not a controlled, disciplined devil like Akuma.
Simply put, Ryu isn’t equipped to handle Snh…not without training from Akuma. Unused to the negativity of it, it turns him into EXACTLY what the warnings against SGS told Akuma he would become: individually destroyed, running mad for the rest of his life. Akuma resisted that entirely…Ryu can’t.
Was Ryu “Evil Ryu” when he shoryuken’d Sagat? No absolutely not. Did he draw on SnH and launch a Metsu Shoryuken? Yes, I’d say he absolutely positively did and the proof is in the scar and what we know about Gouken’s teachings. Gouken’s techniques CANNOT do that to flesh…and that is by design. The Metsu SRK, however? Explicitly designed for that just like the Scything hurricane kick meant to decapitate others.
Ryu tapping SnH does not make him “Evil Ryu”…it does put him on a path of discovery, however, that can LEAD to him losing himself to SnH and becoming Evil Ryu. In Alpha and especially in 4, Ryu is at a cross-roads between 2 teachings. Mu and SnH are entirely mutually exclusive. He has to pick a path. We know from SF3 that he picks the path of Mu…but we’re witnessing the decision making process.
Also, keep in mind that “sealing” the SnH in Ryu means very little. It just puts a cap on it. It is like sealing the 9-tailed fox in Naruto. The goddamn thing is still in there. Now…Necalli consuming it? Nope, still doesn’t fix the problem. It is not a SPIRIT inhabiting Ryu, it is a method of cultivating chi. I just think you shouldn’t cultivate that kind of chi around Necalli since the dude can drink it in like gatorade. Ryu has to CONSCIOUSLY reject SnH and no longer draw on chi in that way. Simple as that.
Im questioning whether or not Adon fought Ryu at all in SF, and if so, was he defeated in the exact same manner as Sagat? Because throughout the whole series Adon speaks as if he wasn’t in the same boat as Sagat getting his ass Shoryu’d into submission. If Adon were any more qualified as being King of Muay Thai you would think that he hadn’t of been beat by Ryu.
I think it’s likely our view of SF1 events is VERY different from Capcom’s, including it containing VERY FEW of the characters we normally think of.
That post was flawless, Yagami.
This made me think of a question: was it ever specified when Ryu learned the Shin Shoryuken? I always assumed it was during the SF3 era, but seeing that he could use this in Alpha 3, it means he had to have learned it well before.
Thanks much!
I assume he learned it from Gouken considering Gouken uses it as a trump card technique as well. It seems his equivalent of the Metsu Goshoryu, especially with that attack in the repertoire of Evil Ryu. They both even have “extra” components now. The Shin Shoryuken has always had the initial gut-punch to remove the breath of the opponent and put them in perfect position…and now the Metsu Goshoryu has the downward driving fist to pulp whatever would be left of the opponents head after shredding their body. If that technique were actually landed against someone they’d be left looking like the reporter impaled by the church stone in Hot Fuzz. Nasty stuff.
That makes sense.
While Ryu can use the Shin Shoryuken (he also uses Metsu Shoryuken in Alpha 3 as well) in Alpha 3, I *really *like the idea of him learning it sometime before the SF3 era. Knowing that Gouken is alive after SF4, and seeing that Ryu uses both of Gouken’s (Denjin Hadouken and Shin Shoryuken) techniques in SF3, Gouken training with him again some point after the SIN tournament seems plausible to me.
It most likely consisted of him teaching Ryu how to utilize the Denjin style into his repertoire, as well as giving him pointers on refining his Shin Shoryuken. That super sucked total ass in Alpha 3, but had far more power behind it in SF3.
I’ll actually be the one and contend to this, but I actually believe Gouken’s Shin Shoryuken (真・昇龍拳) that he teaches Ryu is in fact the original unrestrained form of Shoryuken. The “Shin” is the same character used in Shin Gouki (真・豪鬼), which is naturally Gouki unrestrained. Compared to the regular and modified variants that Ken, Akuma, and the rest use, this is the form of Shoryu that is the most like original. Gouken has developed a way to not have his style revolve around SnH, in effect lessening the chance of succumbing to it. None the less the move is very threatening, as Ryu describes in SF3:2I, its no walk in the park.
“Yes, that is the nature of the attack. If it strikes, you will be crushed!”
You’ve just experienced the Shin Shoryuken!! Tell me if you’ve seen any greater force!
Originally the sole reason why Gouken would forbid the move was because of it’s potential to kill. Even in the manga that Evil Ryu was introduced this was the case.
Shoryu had been a potentially deadly move, even in the controlled hands of Gouken and under his tutelage.
He would even strike Ryu or Ken down for using it lightheartedly as to show off.
Is there anything about Gouken’s Kinjite Shoryuken that differentiates it from the others? It actually seems just as dangerous as the Metsu Shoryuken.
I would actually totally disagree with this.
“Shin” means “True”. Gouken, as the chosen successor of Goutetsu, is the one that holds the keys to the discipline and its principles. As such, his “TRUE” Shoryuken would be far from the “Original” Shoryuken. The “True” Shoryuken, when used appropriately, CANNOT kill. If misused? Absolutely, but that is true of almost any legitimate fighting technique. Gouken’s Shin Shoryuken, however, is ENTIRELY created to end a fight absolutely 100% definitively while NOT killing the foe. This whole “Shin Shoryuken” is the “original” SRK is something that has bothered me for a long time. It is the LEAST like the original. It has no trace of SnH in it and is 100% derived from an opposite mentality of SnH. It is designed to safe-guard the opponents life, something totally incompatible with SnH and the origins of Goutetsu & Akuma’s martial art. It is forbidden simply because of the amount of power it draws and its potential to kill if INCORRECTLY USED, not if used against the wrong person or at the wrong time. If flawlessly used, the Shin Shoryuken would be 100% non-fatal 100% of the time. That level of technique, of restraint, of Mu, takes MASTER level discipline and skill…hence it being forbidden to those unable to utilize that level of ability EVERY time ALL the time in a fight.
You can even see in that manga the SRK being used is absolutely positively NOT Gouken’s martial art. It rips open the stone. That is an SRK using improper technique and principles that are like those of the Goshoryu…Akuma’s technique. It cuts, it rips. The goshoryu is the “strong rising dragon”. Notice there is no mention of a fist…because it is not about IMPACTING it is about obliterating and tearing…the action of a dragons jaws, not a humans fist. Ken & Ryu were so damned green they couldn’t even grasp the BASICS of what Gouken was imparting upon them. The ability to DESTROY does not denote talent, ability or wisdom. In fact, it is often the exact opposite…especially when MISTAKEN for it. Contrast with the Shin Shoryuken that has always been an attack based solely on impact. A punch to the stomach and an uppercut to knock the opponent totally senseless. The difference between that and an SnH uppecut is night and day.
Again, in that manga, Gouken’s true power is shown not in the ability to cleave a rock but in his ability to extend a hand and have a leaf land in it. THAT is true mastery. Did the leaf fall at his behest? Did he simply reach out and catch it? Neither. He was at one with nature and the very world around him. All existence spoke to him. The leaf caught Gouken just as much as he caught it.
The Shin Shoryuken is 110% absolutely not the original SRK taught by Goutetsu or anything of the like. It is an ADVANCEMENT of the technique reflecting the TRUTH of martial arts as espoused by Gouken and supported by Goutetsu via his choosing of Gouken. It is “True” in the same way as Ryu’s path is that of the “True” martial artist in that both are totally incompatible with and the total opposite of Gouki’s “Flawed” path.
I can even support all that with in-game proof 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIQAhdxxk5c
Notice the LUDICROUS requirements to hit the Shin Shoryuken in SFA3. What do you get if you fuck up? A regular SRK animation. If you get that single-pixel perfect positioning though? Shin Shoryuken with a very different animation. It does not swing up to tear, it hits precisely at the jaw and knocks out. In video game terms, that single-pixel perfection is STUPIDLY hard to do even in training. Now imagine being able to land it perfectly 100% of the time whenever you want to do it in a LIVE game. That level of consistency is entirely superhuman…but it is what is required to use the Shin Shoryuken as intended. And that translates to its difficulty in the lore. If you cannot do it 100% right all the time, you shouldn’t be using it at all. Gouken forbid it.
Only someone that has achieved Mu can have the level of awareness, skill and technique required to do that because they can sense everything around them because it is them and they are it. It is catching the leaf. Who can do that in SF lore AND has the necessary training in the technique? Literally only Gouken (for now).