The Ibuki Thread

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter x Tekken
121

finally got a chance to play the game… first thoughts on ibuki is that she sucks… but that remains to be seen as i didnt get any t-mode time in.

everything seems worse the sfxt cast on a whole is more poky than the sf4 cast so that makes her even more suspect as every character feels like ibuki v bison in sf4… ie they out poke her and she doesnt have kunai mixups to fall back on to get the damage back.

her jump is REALLY floaty. seems even worse than her sf4 jump (she has the 3rd-4th slowest jump of a non divekick character in sf4 iirc) i couldnt cancel from her lmh target combos… though i think i may have been getting her sfxt combo instead… she cant cancel lk mk target into special unless i was just that fail… i had my friend sit there and block and i couldnt cancel it into tsumuji, her ex kazegiri doesnt seem to have much priority as i got it stuffed as VERY consistently as an AA. kunais seem to move slower than her sf4 counterparts… she does a very big leap backwards when doing them as well which is reminiscent of her kunai in ssf4 except for less damage and slower… meaning that she will easily corner herself if she tries to zone with them… seems like a losing strat. her cr.mk seems nerfed from sf4 to sfxt… in sf4 it had decent priority for that weird range that lk wiffs at but mk doesnt. it seems slower, or less range or just the other cast members have more range or there moves at that range are faster… something.

the one shining light i saw with her in my limited play time with her… would seem good were it not something thats a new system mechanic to sfxt:

moves that are very little frame disadvantage or neutral that move forward while attacking while ALSO LEAVING THE ATTACKER VERY CLOSE.

i think it a new system mech cause rolentos 1 series rekka baton is like 0 or -1 or -2 but he gets left at a spacing that is VERY close to the opponent yet out of the opponents jab range… but in his… this means that rolento can basically st.lp,cr.mk xx baton (repeat) for damn near infinity and the onl thing that can stop him is reversals/alpha counters afaik. our friend was running all us down with his day 1 pogo’ing bulshit rolento ito that block trap ad nauseam… very simple execution and mindgames plus it all connects on hit making for the easiest hitconfrim known to man… this obviously menat that he would do it and bait reversals and get free punishes etc etc…

anywho, back on to ibuki she has something similar though not nearly as powerful cause cause she doesnt have normals that are anywhere near as godlike as rolentos cr.mk and st.lp.

anywho the trap string is simple: far st.lp,st.mk xx lk tsumuji (repeat) this has literally no pushback and ibuki can repeat it forever with the opponent being forced to ac or reversal out… i was getting good ok damage from it… but its hard for ibuki just to start it up cause she has bad offensive moves as far as getting in.

anywho, im not going to pass judgement on her just yet. will have to wait and see how this game is played to know if shes good,bad or ugly… but first impressions dont look good imho. will have more to say once i get a copy.

-dime

122

Can anyone do Trial 20? For some reason, after the EX Kazakiri, I can connect the J.:hp: but then I’m too far for the cr.:lp:, no matter how much I try to spam the :lp: or time it, nothing works, I saw Vesper’s video and that doesn’t help at all <_<

123

you gotta walk forward a little when you land from the j.fp…its actually like really easy compared to her sjc trials.

124

Do you mean her sjc trials in SFxT, or in SF4, because in SF4 her sjc trials were impossible for me (never beat them, never will). However, in this game, I found her sjc quite easy to execute…I hope you mean this game lol xP

However, I’ll go try walking forward, it would make sense.

125

far st.lp,st.mk xx lk tsumuji leaves her at -3 according to the brady guide preview that was posted on srk front page yesterday. I don’t have it in front of me but i believe mk tsumuji leaves her at -1 without doing the additional kick. I’ve been using this as the trap string although it doesn’t leave her as close as lk tsumuji but close enough to connect a cr.lp, st.mk xx mk tsumuji. I do this string but still get counter hit by Jin’s st.lp (i’ve only played against jin/abel/ryu/ken so far :X) so i try to yomi a raida to counter it :|.

I’ve been playing Rolento/Ibuki for a couple days now since a friend has gotten the game early and i kind of feel the same way as you dime. I’ve only played rolento and ibuki for these couple days but Rolento feels waaaaaay better than ibuki in everyway, its very depressing :(. I’m not willing to drop Ibuki cuz i love the way she plays but it seems it is going to tough.

126

its still early in the game guys, characters develop over time. and trust me, speaking from experience, starting with a character you struggle with in the beginning, you’ll learn alot more than someone who takes the easy way out.

127

Had a launch party tonight and a chance to throw out some actual Ibuki in game experience. From what I gathered, she’s nowhere near what’s she’s supposed to be in SSFIV at the moment right now. The only thing I could really do with her up close is the f.lk, lk tsumuji and repeat until you get a hit as a close up pressure game…Otherwise you want to be from a distance using cr.mp into something or b.mk cancel into overhead.

So far from what I gathered or experienced is that her main game is basically what I listed above which is small damage in small amount of time and then the use of fierce attacks for ground bounce and juggles. The trials give you a very good idea of what you can juggle and etc. Her main ground TCs are now a little too difficult to make practical but I think that’s only because of her SSFIV TCs were so much more simple to do.

LIke I mentioned in my earlier post, she’s a really different character because of her main strengths and abilities in SSFIV are now pretty much non-existent. Quick question, even though she’s lost her super jump, does her SJC still exist?? I know it’s pretty logical that in order to SJC, you have to have a super jump but it looks like some of her main B&B’s require a jump cancel.

128

Yes you can SJC.

I think a lot of people are underestimating ibuki. Shes changed but shes still good. Ibuki pressure is intense in this game, I’ll stand by what I said.

:mk:, :qcb::hk:, :lp: loop has ~3 frames for counter hit on block. If you’ve shoved them into the corner and they 1- don’t have a 3 frame jab, 2- don’t have a reversal and 3- don’t have meter they literally have nothing they can do to not get hit. They can either take the hit and roll out or they can sit there and let you build meter on them. They can’t launcher reversal because all the hits are high, they can’t cross cancel you because they have no meter, they can’t backdash because they’ll just get smacked during it. They can tag out and you can go ahead and do 386 damage from a standing combo without meter because ibuki is a fucking beast.

Y’all fair weather ibuki players need to gtfo, doubters don’t deserve the #1 kunoichi.

129

Y’all are fucking crazy. Ibuki is going back to her roots, none of this crossup kunai shit.

Second Impact-style combos are the future, ladies.

130

Her SJC is still in, can do it after her cl.lp,cl.mp,df.hk,f.hk into raida/command dash/super etc for example.
s.lk,mk TC has to be inputted with a forward command so not to make it a cross rush, so s.lk,f.mk xx Tsumuji
Her b.mp seem to have full upper body invincibility, but like SSFIV requires proper spacing, probably still alot better than using kazegiri as AA.
Her cr.mk can be chained in her sweep, so OS it for footsies? Basically repeating what was said in the SFxT guide for Ibuki :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway she seems definately as a character that should be put second, also think her best damage will come from, like the majority of the cast gets from Tag cancels attacks that lets the opponent stay on the ground. Ken his tatsumaki for instance.

Wonder if after a hk tsumiji loop you can do s.lp, st.mk xx ex Kazegiri, probably can.

131

Yup, HK is the new looping. You can’t :mk: xx :qcb::hk: though. Has to be off TC4, :hp: or :d::hp:.

132

Guess that seems fair, as how often you could hit a MK xx tsumuji when she’s on point. Most definately best applied after a Tag, which is fine.

133

as far as the people saying ibuki is awesome:

are yall playing only t-mode or what? EVERY character looks good in t-mode. fact of the matter is that after having checked her frame data… EVERYTHING SHE HAD IN SF4 IS SLOWER and there is no focus attack OR PARRY for dealing with other characters pokes. her jump in is EVEN SLOWER in sfxt than it is in sf4… (same jump speed as chuns sf4 jump… which is the slowest jump in sf4) all her command dashes are SLOWER, her cr.mk is SLOWER. her sweep is probably slower, she has NO INVINCIBLE REVERSAL MOVES (saving back dash) shes a 900 hp character in a game where 450 damage bnb’s are normal.

the sfxt cast HAS BETTER POKES THAN THE SF4 CAST. ibukis pokes are WORSE than her sf4 counterpart…

im all for a different playing ibuki as i didnt like the flowchart kunai ibuki of sf4… but she on the outside seems like shes much worse than her sf4 counterpart (who was a midtier character) the only things she seems to have “gained” are massive juggles (everyone “gained” this) and her bonsho kick looks to be really good this time unlike her sf4 counterparts (+0 on block, +2 on hit, comboable on CH, tech jumps lows later in its startup… could be a ridiculous frame trap normal)

if shes viable i only see it in the second position… playing her on point seems like literal suicide. use someone else to get in and start combos or just get in then tag in ibuki for her ridic upclose game is the way i see her being played. which leaves little room for error cause if the opponent gets away ibuki now has to deal with basically having NO OPTIONS for dealing with pokes… cant jump over them cause of ridiculously floaty jump, cant focus them cause there is no focus, cant parry them cause there is no parry, cant out poke them cause her pokes have less range and are slower…

anywho she could be a monster in the second slot though… only time will tell… also there may be a gem or 2 that may make her more viable on point… personally im theory fighting up easy input gem so that i can tsumuji while walking backwards… COULD BE GODLIKE YO!

-dime

134

I originally planned on playing Auksa/Lili ( Still might ), but last night I played Ibuki Lili and that team is crazy. I had a way easier time getting in with Ibuki than I did Asuka ( Maybe cuz Im still in the learning process ). But I think her cr.MP is a good ranged Poke. You can cancel it into a Charged Raida Dash so you can apply pressure or block once you are in there face from Button Mashers.

I havent looked at any of the frame Data yet but Dime could have a point. THe game overall does feel slower to me on the SF side atleast.

Her Anti Air Back MP is Godlike in this game and you can do so much more with it in this game. SJC in j.H for the ground bounce in to blah blah blah.

135

sorry but im looking at the frame data right now, i didnt go thru all of it but i dont see how they are slower.

looking at her main normals from sf4:

st.mk

  • still the same. now has 2f extra of frame advantage on hit/block

far st.lp

  • still 3f startup - lost 2f of frame advantage, but still +2 on block, +6 on hit.

st.mp

  • same.

cr.lp

  • still the same

cr.mp

  • 1f faster from 8f startup to 7f. however it lost about 2f of frame advantage to make it -2 on block and +2 on hit now.

f.mk overhead is now 23f. it was 26 in AE and 25 in 2012. faster overhead is REALLY GOOD. frame advantage is still +5.
raida is now 3f (tho no longer throw invincible)

like i said i didnt go thru evertyhign.

yes her command dashes are 1f slower each. i dont think this is game-breaking.
cr.mk and cr.hk are also 1f slower. i dont think this matters as cr.mk is still not special cancellable. cr.hk… o well.
everything seems about the same. she lost a few frames on some move but gained a few on others. i really dont see how shes slower.

yeah she has a floaty jump and shitty ground game / footsies, but thats how she always was. she sucked at dealing with pokes already. shes not any worse other than a lack of kunai vortex. if she sucks now then she sucked in sf4 too, i dont think shes any slower/worse.

anyways thats just my opinion for now, guess we’ll have to see waht happens.

I feel like if u could play ibuki in sf4 , u can still play her. it’ll just take time to figure out her mixups. her neutral game is the same. if u had trouble playing her, there’s nothing significant in this version that’s gonna change that. she still has the same weaknesses.

136

Anyone notice that cl lp is +5 on hit, +1 on block? This makes her have a cl lp frame trap that is reliable from up close and easy to link afterwards on hit. cr lp is also now +7 on hit.

Her f+mk says -4 on block which is horrible, but the b+mk x f+mk is +4 on block and +7 on hit (although its startup is 27…). However with bonsho kick being +2 on hit you could probably do frame traps afterwards on hit and it is safe on block. On counterhit it is +29 though, so yea… I feel like I am really going to like bonsho kick, assuming that its hitbox is good.

But a huge difference that I noticed was that sazan is now -3 (-5 in AE) on hit and -7 (-11 in AE) on block. Even though its startup is now 8 instead of 7, it is now alot more safer and easier to combo afterwards.

Also her tc from st hp into backhand says that it is knockdown on hit, so I am assuming you could do something like cr mp (or cr mk) chaining into st hp, f+hp to get the knockdown rather than using sweep which will probably have less range, less damage, and will probably be easier to punish.

I have two quick questions about kunai though. Even though it pops up on hit, is it still comboable afterwards if you throw it from up high and land early enough? Does it have good stun on block as well?

I still have not gotten the game yet, nor have I played it, so this is all just theory on my part.

137

you’re missng the point, she lost speed on stuff THAT MATTERS and gained speed on spinkick (overhead) if you dont know the power of her cr.mk in AE i dont know what to say… its basically the only move that made her playable as its the only move that had the ability to counter the opponents pokes while in range for it. in order to use her cr.mp in sf4 you had to try and wiff with it so that people would walk into its substantial active frames… however now characters seem to have more range on there pokes + the cr.mp seems to have less range meaning that wiff buffering that move is useless now. and, when using it when you were obviously in range it was pretty much going to get stuffed 9 out of 10times cause it had the range of a shorter medium attack but the speed of a hard attack. now it has the range of some characters jabs but is damn near twice as slow. her jump got slower, her tsumujis got slower, her highest priority MIDRANGE pokes got slower, her command dash is slower, she doesnt have kunai mixup anymore, her kunai is slower, her kunai does less damage, her kunai has 3 more frames of recovery iirc (9-13 frames of recovery in sf4 versus 16 frames of recovery in sfxt) her tsumujis are slower (doesnt matter a great deal though) her raida has WAAAY more recovery (once again doesnt matter much)

her buffs are her bonsho kick (F+HK) her overhead (2 frames faster, which is a godsend) and 3 frame raida (doesnt matter once again cause NO ONE will be throwing out that move outside of combos) and her tsumujis + on block frames while also dealing very low pushout… frames wise she is overall nerfed. primarily cause of her much slower jump, and her slower, less ranged cr.mk and her loss of a parry mechanic to deal with pokes.

so i ask you: how in the hell are you planning on dealing with other players that arent noobs and jumping at you all day (why anyone would jump at ibuki in neutral as a non crossup is beyond me) keeping you out with pokes? your tools which werent even great in sf4 for dealing with them ALL got worse:

jump over them (now much slower)
focus them (non existent)
compete with them with cr.mk (its slower now and has less range)
make them respect the jump back kunai so that they will stop being overaggressive with pokes (kunai now does only 30 damage down from 50? in ae and 60 or 70 in super, kunai is now much more floaty so its very easy to maneuver around, kunai now has a HUGE jump back component to it so you will corner yourself fast if you try and spam them, kunai now has more landing frames)
dash in (the command dashes are slower now, the regular dash has less range also iirc)

and finally where is ibuki special now? she used to be the only character that could cancel into command dashes… (now EVERY character can cause of the hold specials) she used to be one of the few characters with chains (now every character has them) she used to be one of the only characters with juggle potential like it was (every character now has ridiculous juggle potential)

anywho IM NOT DOWN ON HER. its just that i like it when characters are actually properly evaluated that way if i am going to use a shitty character then i KNOW im going to have to work hard and i know that the others in the forum also know it and then we can stop disagreeing and simply step our shit up to trying to find ways around the characters weaknesses. i was one of the first players to say that ibuki wasnt that great in super… i got shouted down. i said it again in AE and similar results happened… now i havent been there much over the last year, but pretty much everyone calls her ass. im not down with the pity party, just want characters evaluated right cause looking at a character like its awesome when it actually needs damage control is… well the words escape me… but it isnt fucking smart.

in the end all i can say is that if you are getting in easy with her you are probably playing against bad players. if you think her cr.mp is a good priority poke you are probably playing with bad players, if people are jumping towards you you are probably playing with bad players. ibukis weakness has always been getting in and bad midrange pokes…well those weaknesses are even more apparent in this game and the other characters have even better pokes than sf4 which makes the problem 10 times worse than if she had just lost a frame or 2 here and there.

but i still hold out that she may be good cause this game may play radically different from sf4 in its general strategy. however there is NOTHING to point to that as of right now as i write this post.
which was all i was ever saying, in a nutshell.

-dime

138

Unless the frame data on that walkthrough is incorrect tsumiji is NOT + frames on block (unless your talking about EX version). It is 0 at best. Tsumiji in Ae also was 0 on block at best. Tsumiji is slower and weaker in Sf X T. Kunai was 50 in super and 30 in AE.

As for her footsies. Maybe they do suck, but she might have some tricks to get in like her really buffed sazan. She has a partner so you could probably do stuff like sazan and partner switch or kazekiri partner switch. I need to just buy the game and try her stuff out.

139

I said 3 frames for counter hit. It is 0 frames. Her jab is 3 frames. Therefore, if they have a 4 frame jab, they lose.

140

If she’s like a cross between Second Impact and Third Strike I’ll try her out for like 10 minutes I guess. That’s considering I’ll probably play this game for like an hour and then never play it again.

If she has sub par normals again I don’t see myself staying with her though. Her normals were beast in 2I/3S and Capcom always on the water down now.