you know it’s funny that people say that they want the game to combine the “best elements” from marvel and tvc except for no one really cares to explain what the best elements from tvc are
I love Marvel Vs Capcom 2. A lot. Do I look at it as my Lord Savior and believe it is God’s gift to fighting games like some of these other pricks? No, I don’t. Sorry.
And now people are in here insulting Keits because he closed a few dumbass topics. SRK children always deliver good laughter–even on a shitty day like this, lol.
I do agree that an EO mode would be nice instead of nerfing the entire gameplay mechanics, though. I want to work hard to pull moves off, while finding an array of aerial combos and other cool combinations.
I hate MVC2 because it’s not balanced. That is all.
Anyone who thinks Marvel is unbalanced is hereby required to provide a definition of ‘balance’ and explain why Marvel does not meet that criterion.
Sentinel. I don’t know a game where normal attacks do chip damage to someone who’s blocking. Not even Cable’s gun is that strong. Oh, right. And Cable. Certain guys just don’t have a chance against others, no matter how hard they try–unless the person is really shitty.
And I love the craziness of Marvel; don’t really give a shit about balance in the Vs series, either, so no one needs to attack me.
Anyone who thinks Marvel is unbalanced is hereby required to provide a definition of ‘balance’ and explain why Marvel does not meet that criterion.
Anyone who thinks Marvel is unbalanced is hereby required to answer these questions:
- Is a game with 10 characters, where all of them have different sprites and animations but the exact same frame data and hitboxes ‘balanced’?
- Is a game with 60 characters, 10 of which are competitive and all offer unique styles of play and 50 of which are absolute garbage ‘balanced’?
- If you remove those 50 useless characters, does it become ‘more balanced’?
- If you add even more garbage characters, does it become ‘less balanced’?
what game that’s popular right now that has more than 10 tournament playable characters?
tournament characters in mvc2:
sentinel
cable
magneto
storm
cyclops
capcom
strider
dr doom
spiral
iron man
war machine
psylocke
tron
blackheart
better yet, how about you tell us all why MVC2 is so balanced. What makes every character viable against every other character? I’m dying to know how Low tier stands a fighting chance against the top dogs.
What capcom game is like this? If this is your definition of balance, then there are no balanced fighting games.
‘Balance’ doesn’t mean ‘the worst characters can compete against the best characters.’ Any definition of ‘balance’ that relies on relative factors like total percentage of the cast that is competitively viable, how well the bottom tier stacks up against the low tier etc. is self-evidently moronic because these things don’t change the actual nature of the game. If you take SF4 and add 10 more garbage-tier characters does the game suddenly become worse? No, the whole game you had before is still there. Those extra characters have absolutely no effect on the existing game, so it’s stupid to say that the game has now become worse. Likewise, if you take out the garbage tier characters from Marvel, has the game become better? No, because if it’s true that those characters had absolutely no effect on competitive play of the game anyway, they were already effectively absent. ‘The game,’ as far as we as competitive players are concerned, is not ‘the stuff on the disc,’ it’s ‘the stuff on the disc that matters.’
‘Balance’ is an absolute factor, not a relative one. It can be defined thus: the variety of different, yet viable options available to the player. Under this definition, how is Marvel not balanced? Conversely, a game like Alpha 3, which has an extremely wide top tier where everyone relies on essentially the same tactic to win (build meter, VC, infinite) is not balanced. This is a far more useful definition of balance that has more relevance to the realities of competitive play than some arbitrary requirement of how many different sprites you see in match videos.
What I will admit is arbitrary about this definition is the exact amount of ‘different, yet viable options’ that is necessary to qualify as ‘balanced.’ Ultimately that is up to the individual player. I will note that it doesn’t hinge on things like the number of unique characters, necessarily; a game with a very small number of viable options that are very unique and complex can be balanced; look at Starcraft. Likewise a game with NO uniqueness in terms of characters but a great amount of different strategical approaches to the game can be balanced; look at chess. Of course, it’s no less arbitrary than the percentage of options required to qualify as ‘balanced’ under the relative definition.
The system works.
Thanks for the quarantine thread Keits.
Also, it seems people don’t actually understand the concept of balance as pertaining to fighting games. Good balance comes from having multiple playstyles be viable and acceptable. Total intercharacter balance becomes exponentially more difficult the more characters are added to the game, especially when there aren’t a great deal of universal systems. Characters, by dint of having different abilities and hitboxes and attacks make them inherently unbalanced. So either you end up with Ryu vs. Ryu forever or you make sure the variance between characters isn’t enough to make some characters utter trash.
When you think about it, the low tier of Marvel has amazing character variance. Even the top tiers have all sorts of different playstyles and strategies that developed around them. Striving for perfect balance got us Street Fighter 4 vanilla. A lot of the games that are hype give everybody some crazy bullshit, which then evens itself out.
one of the major reasons I think a lot of people hated tvc including myself is because it was basically all rushdown, in mvc2 you had trapping type teams.
having teams that can trap adds a whole 'nother element of fun to the game and makes it a whole hell of a lot more interesting imho
are you a player or a game reviewer? lets get this out of the way now so everyone can decide if they want to ignore you from now on
So in short: Marvel is balanced, regardless of the mass amount of characters that aren’t so great.
I hear you. Every character can’t be cable/mag/sent/storm/psy, but I would like to be able do something better with my low tiers against them. If there’s a better way to close the gap in MVC3, I’m all for infinites, crazy assist setups and everything that makes MVC2 what it is.
So yeah, I guess I do want to see more sprites in match videos.
That’s cool, just stop calling it ‘balance.’
You can call me a TvC fanboy if you want, but im a MvC2 fanboy too. I played it straight from release until i quit fighting games as a whole for 2 or 3 years. When I came back, I simply could not keep up with the best players in Marvel anymore. You guys got too far ahead of me and I dont have the spare time to invest to catch back up. I like the idea of MvC3 being a hybrid of two flawed games that I love, and I have my worries too. But the bottom line for me is that I love fighting games, and anyone who actually knows me (not pretends to and tries to take cheap shots over an internet forum) knows that I play just about anything, bad good or great. The real problem here is the attitude that your game is better than anyone else’s game. Everyone has thier favorites and for all kinds of different reasons, and bashing other communities (especially small ones) is pretty fucking lame and I’d hope that in 2010 we are past that high-school bullshit.
That said, there is a lot of babying going on right now because we are trying to keep the forum organized and clean. Something like “would it be an issue for you if MvC2 used a TvC layout” is a valid line of disucssion between players. Something like “Here is why we love MvC2 and why its actually very good” is awesome, but we don’t need multiple threads for that (Fanatiq’s is great, and if you have something to say along those lines, reply to that thread). Something like “here is what I personally want” belongs in the suggestion thread. Its not that hard, and if we work together we will have a subforum that is easy to browse and keep up with, instead of drowning in duplicate threads.
then why have a suggestion thread @ all? fanatiqs post is not a suggestion.
you told me if I wanted to make a suggestion to do it the suggestion thread. However you’re deeming which threads are worthy of being separate from the main thread.
you’re picking which topics stay and which go away and the ones that mention TvC as a good influence are standing tall. The ones that bash on TvC are no longer there in which case I will probably make a thread called
would it be an issue if mvc2 controls were in mvc3 and why TvC doesn’t belong in mvc3.
I will get my point across regardless of how many rules you put on me.
and you should stop abusing your mod power. Its clear you’re playing favorites with your own game and you’re doing everything in your power to make sure the TvC side is being heard. Its clear by your numerous posts on srk\stream talk that you’re a fan of TvC and you want it to succeed.
I don’t know, all of them?
You’re also forgetting that MvC2 is a team game and out of 55,000+ teams, people generally use about a dozen.
Could you please give me a more specific example than this?
You are delusional and paranoid.
I also wanted to mention how quick MvC2 players are to explain and defend their game, being very (and rightly) upset at the people who bash it who dont really know whats going on in it… and then turn around and do the same to players of other games that they don’t really understand themselves. The hate is too thick. We are all just fighting game players hoping for a good game to play. Its our definitions of what makes a game good that vary.
Edit: WAIT! You are the guy that made a thread called “Marvel 3 officially sucks” and you are wondering why it got closed? Why am I even responding to you?