can someone help me out with some setups for guy after landing a knock down with him please
Adon’s will always be throw happen, his throw has decent range and has a small tech window. It’s one of the few grabs you won’t tech all the time unless you strictly know the timing of when to crouch tech. Unlike Gouken’s backthrow… (you should never get thrown by that.)
Supah what exactly do you need help with? Most KDs for guy lead to crossups or safejumps.
well I noticed that I dont really use any setups other than the two foward jumps in a crossup j.mk or elbow and im looking for more setups / safe jumps that can make me a bit more ambigous because I feel like after the first round I get figured out pretty easily.
There’s a safe jump video lurking the threads but its on youtube, you can do dash twice walk a slight bit forward jump for a cross up, a delayed run slide into elbow for a fake out (works well.) Anything that comes to mind really, setups for meaties etc.
Is there a fuzzy guard immediately after hit/blocked cl.st fierce x RS -> st jab?
Highly unlikely
To do this safely, you have to delay your crouch tech by 1 or 2 frames. Any more than that, you will get thrown. Any less (i.e. you don’t delay it at all), wakeup Rising Jaguar will blow up your cr. LK. But let’s imagine that he will just go for wakeup throw. I always double tap throw tech in those situations. Go for the 1st tap as you land (on the same frame you would use Ultra 2 to punish an opponent’s safe jump) then again immediately afterwards. This gives you a bit of margin for error with your timing. I find that even if I read a telegraphed incoming throw, I always tech too late without double tapping. But in general, particularly in high level and tournament play, throw tech is almost useless. This is why Infiltration won EVO I think. Everyone was so scared to throw tech in case they got blown up with much more damaging combos. Once Infiltration had them scared, walk up throws were pretty much free. There is always an important risk/reward with going for crouch techs. Sometimes just blocking or back dashing to bait out a reveral can be the better option.
Not at all. You’re not switching from a high to a low attack, and you’ll be at serious negative frames after cl.st fierce x run stop. It’s possible that on hit or counter hit, this could be a setup for an anti-air reset if they try to jump after the run stop. But if you have just scored a cl.st fierce, you’d wanna go for a much better option than run stop.
The training dummy set on crouch random guard does some strange things then, thus giving me the illusion of a fuzzy guard setup
I posted these Fuzzy Guards a while back against T Hawk: Normal Slide or Ex Run Slide then quickly Forward Dash Twice, then immediately Jump Away Mp. Also you can do crHp, Target Combo into Run Slide then quickly Forward Dash Twice, then immediately Jump Away Mp. Guy has alot of character specific stuff. Also there are some stuff (it seems) that work in training mode, but do not work in real matches.
so i wanna know 2 things.
1)guy’s best anti-air normal.
2)all the different set ups for his U2. coz i have no clue. i’m tired of wiffing it or getting dp for doin it.
1- Cr.MP, Cr MK, normally both will work just fine against a majority of the cast, however some characters and normals will have to be defeated with cr.mk or cr.mp. Cr.MP has a great hitbox and Guys head hitbox is fairly small and is normally covered by the cr.mps hitbox. This move is good all around and only loses to a few normals, but can beat those same normals if they space it wrong (Ryu’s Jump HP.) Cr.MK is good because it lowers guy’s hurtbox, which causes the move to whiff and Guy will other hit the opponent, or it will whiff (avoids most crossups). It however loses to deep jumpins and certain normals will still hit it (Ryu’s HP once again. Mostly you can use both in great succession, some moves will have to be beaten by just one of the normals and some characters its better to use one rather than both in most cases. Remember Cr.MK can net you a knockdown, or a reset, while Cr.MP is just a Reset.
2- Guy really doesn’t have many set ups, since the move is a 1 frame Ultra its not as threatening as a 0 frame Ultra. Simply because if they did a reversal you’re getting hit, since AE makes reversals easy to use and make them safe, it’s sometimes a risk to just throw it out there. The only time you’ll get U2 in succession like that is either you catch them doing a normal (tick setup/crouchtech bait), or as a punish. As long as they are in range and the move is -1 or greater, a reversal U2 will always be guaranteed. This will however make them respect your Ultra and if they are already aware of how you can use it makes the task much harder, as they will more than likely not leave themselves in that situation. Aside from all this, the Ultra does catch Safe jumps and Empty Safe jumps, you can personally be flashy with Armor cancel U2 which is risky, or EX Run stop, can be used to punish but also takes a slight risk as well.
1.) cr. MP. Personally, from my experiences, it tends to fail against a LOT of jump ins, even more so against those with high priority hit boxes (Cammy’s j. HP and j. HK, any kind of dive kicks like demon flip kicks from Akuma and Gouken and command dive kicks from Seth and Evil Ryu). It also fails miserably against cross ups unless you do it really late in which case, it’s just better off to block. Even though it is considered a pretty fast start up, I tend to get counter hit a lot for trying to anti air, that’s probably me though (I hope). Cr. MK works as an anti-air also, but it’s mainly used against jump ins that whiff or is hard to hit on low profile moves such as Guy’s own elbow or j. MK.
2.) U2 is really to punish your opponent for pressing a button, it works on pretty much any situation that leaves you at neutral frames or frame advantage when you can be going in for a throw but instead, use U2 to punish their throw tech. The unfortunate thing about this U2 is that it’s harder to execute making it so that any time that you could have thrown, you have to spend extra time to input the motions usually causing you to get blown up for it instead. In other words, I feel like that unless you’re extremely good and fast at inputting the motion, you may just want to use it for gimmicky set ups such as blocked Elbow Drop or using it on their wake up. For the most part, U2 isn’t that reliable with gimmicky set ups so I kind of advise against using this ultra. However, even on whiff, U2 is harder to punish than U1. Also, once you catch them with U2, they are a bit more afraid to push buttons against a certain set up allowing you to play more mind games with your opponent.
I use U2 myself but that’s mostly because I find that U1 doesn’t really do much for my particular gameplay since using U1 to go through fireballs is a bit sketchy and unless I’m using it randomly to punish whiffed moves (which is very unsafe), I don’t find much use for it. Yes, I’m aware that the Bushin Combo in the corner allows me to juggle into U1 and FADC shoulder in the corner also works but I find that the times that it happens is pretty rare. The fact that it doesn’t vacuum in my targets after the first hit (or any hit) is a real downer also since there are some moves that make my opponent airborne and it just punts them away rather than getting full damage. All in all, neither of Guy’s ultras are too useful and are pretty situational.
If you go for U2 at neutral (zero) frames, they can get a free DP, jump, backdash, whatever. It’s not like Zangief, T.Hawk or Hakan’s grab ultras. You can react to it after the ultra freeze animation. This kinda means that there are no true setups for it. I guess you can condition your opponent to go for throw techs and catch them with it, but even that is a big risk. The only guaranteed ways to land this ultra are:
- Catch a true safe jump on wakeup
- Catch meaty moves on wakeup on reaction (often slow overhead attacks)
- Punishing a move that is -1 or more negative frames on block (assuming it’s within the grab range)
- Punishing a whiffed move with a long recovery (e.g. DP or similar reversals, ultras, etc.)
- After a focus attack crumple or dizzy situation
Apart from that, anything else is a risk. Catching frame traps, for example. If they hit a button, they die. If they jump, you die. So it is a gamble, but one that can pay off in the right circumstances. Having said that, don’t let it put you off. I use ultra 2 in most matchups where ultra 1 doesn’t have a clear standout advantage (i.e. you would be a fool to opt for U2 over U1).
On a side note about anti-airs, unless you have meter for EX tatsu, I recommend you just block high priority air moves. Like those of Cammy’s mentioned above, and Blanka’s jumping HK, Bison’s jumping HP etc. You can opt for the instant air throw (use the HP version for the highest hit box to catch deep jump ins), but even that can be risky. If you’re at risk and the opponent’s move generally speaking out-prioritises yours, then blocking is the only smart, safe option.
Murdurus that is most definitely on your part. It does lose for a few normals, Divekicks will beat it at a certain range, and it will beat divekicks at a certain range (Seth’s being the hardest) It requires timing as well. Cr.MP has a lot of uses just because it beats a lot of air normals, and generally you just have to time it corrently for a majority, others it requires spacing.
U2 should only be used in specific matchups, mostly because it can stop what used to be “safe” or hard to punish moves. Matchups like Dudley, Gief. You can use it because MGB from Dudley is normally -4 or worse but the move is hard to simply punish consistently, that’s where U2 can be of use. With Gief after an SPD most Giefs will go for the greenhand mix up, if they time it incorrectly or just not respect your wakeup, you can grab them.
U1 has uses in a lot of matches simply because you are always pushing your opponent into the corner which is where it can be utilized. With its distance buff he has more usability, plus BC -U1 did scale badly but you have Hozanto FADC, which always does more. Plus landing a st/cr.mp into EX hozanto should always be an option if you come into a footsie war near the corner. Or punishing a whiffed normal with EX hozanto. It also shuts down, certain frame traps (max distance cr.mk xx hadouken) their is the possibility of it missing the 2nd hit, but that doesnt happen all to often.
Cr.mp is actually a good anti air, but just like Guy, it can be very hard to use correctly . Seth can either normal jump HK or he can do the dive kick: naturally you would press cr.mp at the time you expect Seth to come down from a normal jump. But if he he did the dive kick, he’ll take much longer to come down and by that time the 3 active frames that the cr.MP *does *have, would be long gone, so Guy gets blown up, not because Seth’s hitbox is too good, but because of the lack of active frames of cr.mp. Same against Rufus, Cammy, whatever.
And because the dive kicks can be executed from different angles in the air, thereby changing the timing, it’s highly unrealistic to practice anti-airing divekicks.
I wouldn’t mind the divekick bullshit in this game, ***if ***Guy’s elbow was actually any good and comparable to the divekicks.
thanks 4 the help everyone. i appreciate it. i’ve decided to switch my main from juri to guy. i’ve played guy in alpha just a teeny tiny bit…and i’ve been playing him in ae2012 only for a couple days now, but i think he fits my playstyle perfectly. unlike juri which is still an enigma to me even if she’s the character i’ve spent the most amount of time with.
i was expecting you guys to say standing lk or standing hk as his best anti-airs, the crouching mp mk mindfucked me. ok i’ll keep everything in mind.
i also use ibuki and when i do i only use her u1 which is just like guy’s u2.
same issues, same problems with its set ups.
but with ibuki, first of all her u1 hitbox is bigger than guy’s u2, so i don’t get much wiffs, and ibuki has her qcf+k dash special, her shuriken, f+hk, overhead, etc…that causes me to land her u1 more often and with greater success than landing guy’s u2. so i was thinking something that pins or causes enough hitstun for me to connect it. but i see what you guys are talking about regarding u2. ibuki and guy are too different 2 apply the same strategies for their ultra set ups.
i really dig guy.
he’s a great character. his izuni drop~air throw qcf+p~qcf+p move does tons of damage. wow. lots of speed and mind game moves. hits hard and fast like adon. i like him.
i’ll try to put up vvids of my guy usage from yesterday. but i’m using fraps so the vid quality is gonna be shit. i apologize in advance.
thanks again everyone.
If Seth does it literally right on top of Guy, that is the hardest thing to ever hit, I literally wait to see what he does I’ll even purposely bait the person by doing a cr.mp right when they jump which anticipates them to do whatever in terms to punish me but I can anti air them.
well St HK and lk have uses… but… normally at certain ranges.
A good anti-air technique I’ve been using against high level Giefs and Hawks lately is a delayed run-slide to catch those whiff jumping normals into LP SPD upon landing. You can try a far st. HK in this situation, but if it trades you’re gonna end up worse off. If you go for cr. MP or cr. MK, their SPD will catch you after they land thanks to their ridiculous range. To combat this, whether they intentionally whiff a normal or empty jump, a run-slide will catch them out of the air as they are landing for a hard knockdown.
I couldn’t agree with this more. Guy’s elbows are much easier to predict against since his jump is so floaty, if he completes his entire jump arc, he whiffs completely with j. MK so his only option is Elbow Drop, although I guess if you really wanted to, you could empty jump over to the other side but that’s not going to be advantageous for you in most scenarios. Throw in the fact that it loses to low profile moves, long recovery and is easily anti-aired, I would much rather prefer Guy to have a “normal” jump arc and get rid of Elbows altogether.
I was watching Ricky Ortiz play Rufus the other day and the more I thought about it, the more Rufus felt like a better version of Guy. Rufus’ cr. HK has more or less the same range as Guy’s slide but much safer on block. His dive kick is infinitely better than Elbow Drops since it doesn’t lose to low profile attacks and recovers instantly on landing and it can be used close to the ground and can be easily combo’ed off of and is safe on block if it hits low enough. His dive kick can also be combo’ed into his target combo into ultra. EX Messiah has more invincibility than EX BSK, FADC-able, and can combo into ultra. EX Messiah is also much harder to punish than a whiffed EX BSK. Rufus’s j. HK has high priority, and again, can combo into ultra. Rufus also have 50 more stamina too from the looks of it? And yet, here I am, continuing to play Guy, I wonder what’s wrong with me sometimes. I apologize for the rant but it’s frustrating playing Guy sometimes when I see all his flaws.
@Axl_m4ster: If Ibuki’s U1 energy bubble hits or gets blocked, she recovers much faster but if it doesn’t connect at all, she recovers really slow and is vulnerable to being punished whereas Guy’s U2 is whiff is kind of in the middle, he’s fairly punishable but it’s not as bad as Ibuki’s whiffed U1. In terms of usage, however, they have very similar applications but Ibuki have less set ups but more usage than compared to Guy if that makes any sense. For instance, Guy have more frame trap options than Ibuki and can continue the pressure with run stop therefore, Guy can stay in their faces and make them afraid to push buttons or tempt them to throw tech. Ibuki, on the other hand, is mainly trying to get her opponent on knockdown so she can do her vortex, in which case, U1 really doesn’t add anything to her gameplay. She can perhaps use it to start her vortex simply by having it as an option however. For instance, she can throw on her wake up or U1, if they attempt to throw/throw tech, then they risk the chance of eating the U1 but if they don’t, then Ibuki can throw and start her vortex, so it kind of forces her opponent to respect her wake up. Guy, of course, have a similar option, but Guy’s options against an opponent’s wake up is much more limited and not quite as lethal as Ibuki’s vortex.
In terms of using st. HK as an anti-air, it is an option, but it’s really not used that often because it doesn’t have too high of a priority and have a slower start up than cr. MP. The one advantage it does have is that it has a longer range than cr. MP so it can work better at certain ranges. I really don’t use it very often unless it’s against Zangief when he jumps in from a far range and I know cr. MP isn’t going to hit. As nebbiez have stated though, run slide works as an anti-air as well, but it’s pretty difficult to time since it’s not just hitting a button but executing the motion as well, it’s also VERY punishable if they block it if you screw up.
Remember what Dieminion said about not just flocking to the popular top tier characters, ‘learning’ how to use them in a week and going on a bodying spree. In the long run, character loyalty can pay off. You can become a character specialist who knows how to deal with all matchups because you’ve stayed true to one character. Plus, with a relatively rare character like Guy (I would say he’s one of the, if not THE least used characters in the game) you have matchup experience on your side. At a tournament, if you’re in a pool with a Ryu, an Akuma, a Rufus and a Seth, I guarantee that the matchup they will be shitting themselves over is YOU! The above characters I listed, almost everyone deals with those matchups regularly. But however good of a player they are, unless they’ve played top level Guy players, they’re not going to have a full understanding of what you can do to them. So even if their character is a 6-4 or even 7-3 matchup over you, your loyalty to Guy and properly learning all the matchups in the game with him means that your superior matchup knowledge can, in my opinion, be the key to victory. This is why I refuse to pick up another character and have always and will always stay loyal to Guy in this game (and probably any future iterations of Street Fighter he is in as well, to be honest)