Basically it just seemed like it didn’t make sense, more reason for guy to have more blockstun on some things or faster recover for run stop.
Hi guy forums, I just had a question about the gief matchup. My buddy plays a pretty solid zangief and it usually bodies me all the time because of how bad the matchup is for guy. I wanted to ask how to deal with gief, I tend to stand at a good range where my cr.mp can anti air all of his jump ins but my main problem is how to get in and deal damage. All of my regular set ups that i use are completely useless against the geif match up. How do you guys deal with zangeif?
You basically will rely soely on footsies against Guy, I understand matchups a lot but when it comes to playing someone thinks can have any turnout because of adaption etc. Basically you will be battling Gief, with cr.mp, st hk, st mp, st mk, st hp a lot, maybe even crouch mk but I’m not sure… DO not use Cr HK unless you are punishing for a KD, if you get a hit even at max distance I do believe Gief can SPD you, if the Gief player knows anything safejumps will not work on Gief when he has meter, You’ll be hit by EX SPD if the Gief knows this. Though you can empty jump lk tatsu if you think he will SPD or if he has done it already (or Ex Bushin Flip) Lk tatsu will catch his backdash.Also that apparently beats EX greenhand for some reason, Anyhow basically that match will basically be you fighting Gief with normals until you push him into the Corner, but all I can say is if a Gief know he will churn that butter through Guy;s blockstrings there are plenty of gaps. between normals and cancels (Run/Stop for instance is not safe at all) Basically just learn the ranges for your pokes and remember where LP SPD range is. and stay out of it. Guy doesn’t have a lot of options to get out of Gief’s pressure once he gets an SPD on you, EX tatsu would be safejumped, He’ll either tick you into an SPD or combo you into an EX Greenhand or regular green hand, And will probably OS your backdash. Capitalize on pokes, always OS your pokes that cancel into Run/slide or EX Hozanto. (or have a fast reaction)
So I guess my best bet right now is to learn some of those option selects, I guess its back to the lab again. I’m always too lazy to put in the time in effort to learning an option select but OSing my pokes into run/slide or anything really sounds like a good asset to my overall game.
I wouldn’t really bother to learn the empty jump ones just because the only time you’ll do it is when he has meter, and you’ll be taking a huge risk if he blocks you’ll be a dead man but you can beat all his reversals aside from Lariat, but you can evade both options, though you can probably empty jump backdash instead and capitalize on his recovery frames but he can still get you with EX Greenhand. Its just mainly you sticking to normals and OS st mp/cr mp with EX hozanto or Run Slide. Taking advantage of KDs. (Gief also has a hard time in the Corner just because for him to get out he will need to land a reversal or hope you make a mistake and land a SPD.
So what are some solid OS that I should learn. Not only for the zangief match up but just overall, and how should I practice them?
Backdashes
you should learn the Cr HK and ex hozanto one. MK tatsu or run slide can be used as well.
practice basically, score a KD, cr mk will do fine, then do ct lp, cr lp/cr hk (hit both buttons at the time, if the opponent backdashes, the first lp will whiff and cr hk will come out afterwards, if they block another cr lp will come out. you can practice by on reaction to do ex hozanto as if you try to os it (doing the move during cr lp’s anmation regardless if it hits or not the move will come out, same with any other special move,
Off his neutral jump safe jump or any safe jump really, input your normal and the special move at around the same time, so say you do TC - run slide, nj, mk qcb 2pp, if the mk connect ex hozanto will not come out, if the opponent backdashes, the mk will whiff and upon landing ex hozanto will automatically come out. This can easily be practiced in training mode by having Guy be the dummy etc. You can OS any move or normal for Guy.
It just all depends on teh situation. I know there is a video on youtube showing several OS for Guy
but most will consist of either, Cr hk, Mp,Hp,EX hozanto, runslide, U1, U2 or mk/ex tatsu.
Just search on youtube and hit up training mode.
I just realized something… while doing training mode… Guy’s cross up set ups specifically the Fwd Throw, Double Jump and Back throw Cr HP fwd jump. Cross up will whiff on Guy if you stay neutral… I think this happens to almost all of Guy’s cross up set ups, Mirror matches will be some serious business.
Yes it whiffs tried to show one of our members these setups and it whiffed on him both times he ran Guy too.
I did find a few setups most of which are either ambiguous as all possible, unless you know that set up and im sure there’s several for characters you would literally think this move hits you from the front, but its not unblockable, the others were safe jump cross ups.
Difference between strengths of his air throw?
Hello C2Q, for detailed information about Guy’s air throw and all his other moves, please refer to my tutorial for beginners/intermediates.
Basically, the damage is the same for all :lp:, :mp:, and :hp:, which is 180 of damage each (stun is also 180).
The difference between them is the grab box, or throw box, which is the range of the grab each version has. :lp: has a lower grab box, :mp: has a straight grab box, and :hp: has a high grab box. Depending on the situation and the position of your adversary and yoursef’s position, you should try to use a different version. For actually seeing the grab boxes images, refer to str[e]ak’s Way of the Sneakers 2.0 thread.
The EX version :2p: costs on bar and has full invincibilty in its first frames until it becomes active, but deals less damage (damage 170 and stun still 180). Even so, this is the best version (air-to-air or anti-air) no doubt beacuse of the invincibility frames.
Hope it helps
so can lp version grab out shoryukens on startup? or any reversals at all?
When you jump in (or do a vertical jump), in other words when in air-to-air, the timing is very strict, I mean REALLY STRICT but yes you can. I would not advise you to do it though. There is a mosnter high chance that the shoryuken will hit you before your grab box gets in contact with Ryu’s or whoever’s hurt grab box. Remember that shoryuken is invincible on its 3 first frames, but their are still on the ground at that time. So you can only air grab then after the third frame, and that is when the shoryuken becomes active.
So, when you do it from the ground, I mean the instant version, you cannot grab a shoryuken on its starting frames. and even after then, I don’t think you are going to be able to catch him, unless you delay the grab and catch them after they start falling down.
As for the EX version, it works much better against shoryukens when in air to air situations. because you are invincible when the shoryuken hits you. There are some reversals Guy can easily grab even with the :lp: version, but shoryuken is not one of them.
I think Honda’;s headbutt, Blanka’s ball, Adon’s Jaguar kick and Jaguar tooth are some of these moves, but I have never seen a complete list of them.
Cheers
I tested a bit with shoryukens in training mode. it worked like 1/20 times with the lp version. Their lp version of srk never got grabbed by ex or lp air throw. Only the mp and hp versions are the ones that work. I always got hit by a lp srk.
also is there a list of setups i can do after run slide or c.hk or any other hard knockdown?
I think there should be no problem in grabbing :lp: Shoryukens as well. Not at least with the EX version.
The timing is faster than against :mp: and :hp: Shoryukens, try it again and you’ll see it for yourself.
As for setups after run slide or cr. :hk: , I am not really sure of what do you want to know here.
Are you talking about set ups for the air grab? If so, you can take one little step back, and neutral jump EX air grab, for baiting reversals.
Other than that this move is used only in some safe jump option select set-ups (like against Fei Long chicken wings, see a video of mine in the Fei Long matchup thread) as an air-to-air or anti-air.
If you are talking about set ups in general, then the conversation would get real long. Although you can always go for the usual neutral safe jump that works on most of the castt, and keep up with the offense, other setups will depend on who you are facing, and there is many of them, for many different situations. Try taking a look at the character specific matchup threads.
Maybe you’re talking about safe jumps. Try taking a look at the safe jump thread or at my tutorial for some examples.
Hope it helps!
I meant setups in general. I come from playing Akuma and I’m used to using so many setups after grabs or knockdowns or whatever. I dunno if guy has anything other than the regular nj mk safejump to mix up after a knockdown. I’ll look at the character threads 
Okay! new question! how tight is the timing on the bushin combo throw version -> H.P in the corner?? I’ve seen so many people do it in vids from SSFIV but I can’t seem to get it down 
2-3 frames maybe even more, its knowing when you can press a normal or special move after the throw is the key, if you can land st mp or cr mp you should easily be able to do st hp, especially st mp. Just takes practice start with lp and learn when Guy can do a normal out of the throw then work from there… plinking helps too.
Hello mate!
This isn’t exactly a link, so the timing is not so tight, but it surely is kind of odd.
It’s never as fast as you thought it would be and neither it is as slow as you thought it would be. At least that’s the impression I get. I would say it’s something around 2 frames window for the HP, and 3 or 4 frames for the MP. So connecting MP is much easier since the timing window is simply bigger. If you have problems with HP just go for MP, I did that for a while.
That until I started double tapping the HP. then I stopped missing the timing, and I mean for good.
So my advice is always double tap it and you should have no problem on getting it right.
To know what double tapping is, if you don’t know, take a look at my tutorial.
Cheers!