Man thanks for the advice, but I dunno why I even bother with Honda vs. Guy. SNK ran my Guy outta the building a few months back as well, I asked him for advice and he said “Pick another character”. I HATE, HATE, HATEHATEHATE being reduced to a counter pick, but I’m gonna have to dust off Gouken and throw him in there vs. Honda. I’ve got NO problems launchin plasma for 50+ seconds, and Gouken’s recovery + AA normals + Kongoshin make this fight VERY satisfying if you can keep Honda out >_>
Dude you don’t have to pick another character just wait Honda out. Remember he has to get in just as much as Guy has to in order to do damage. Yesterday, I had my first ever rage quit from a Honda player. He wasn’t bad either he could of beat me. I waited him out though and frustrated him into quitting after I beat him a round. I’m almost positive that this is how you beat Honda. You should get a sparring partner that uses Honda and practice avoiding his attacks. Learn Honda’s “go-to” moves against Guy as well. Remember also, if he moves forward he loses charge which means it’s also safe for you to move forward. Most Honda’s I play either go to nj. hp, whiff normal, or just crouch block after lost charge. Just study your opponents reactions after lost charge. This will help you learn when to advance on him. However, I suggest just frustrating Honda into making mistakes.
The honda’s that advance and try to pressure me aren’t really the biggest problem: the Honda’s that downback and wait for me to come to them are killin me. They’ve got charge, they’ve got cr. LP xx HHS for chip and to stop my advances, Honda’s standing HK is stupid good, NJ Fierce is pretty good at keeping me out of the air (I can’t seem to regularly throw honda out of that move ;_;), lp headbutt and lk butt slam are basically horizontal and vertical shoryukens, and sumo throw has me REALLY scared to do run >> stop pressure. I have to get in Honda’s face b/c that’s where guy is strongest, but Honda wants me in his face b/c he plows guy in close.
Hence my frustration. And me breaking down and dusting off Gouken. You approach to beating Honda does make sense, but I haven’t gotten it to work for me yet.
Yeah that’s the problem I had at first, but I realized that Guy doesn’t have to be a rush down character. People who main Honda have to be patient because honestly if they do anything other then downback they are putting themselves at risk. Guy has the necessary tools to stay away from any character really. For starters use his Run special anytime you see them jump in for an attack. This will clear space and also frustrate your opponent. I would say use his HP Bushin flip to clear space in the air, but it’s risky if your opponent is nj. hp happy. I use st. hk alot in this match up especially against nj. hp happy Honda’s. It’s the only attack that has worked consistently against Honda’s nj. hp for me. If you have meter stocked Ex Shoulder is going to be your best move. Use it to keep Honda from advancing and closing space between you. Honda can’t do much from afar except a headbutt and that’s risky as hell from that distance. Ex tatsu is good to punish a random Headbutt and the occasional jump in, but I prefer to save those stocks for Ex Shoulder. I’d also like to point out that in the beginning of the match no one has meter. This is your opportunity every time to gain meter and the life lead. You’ll have to play aggressive, but smart. As soon as he gets an Ex stock, back off and start building meter with jumping izuna. Sounds stupid but it’s better then putting yourself at risk. Another note if you are cornered do not jump at all. Honda is waiting for you to do that. Just sit there and wait for your opportunity to escape. Also always select Ultra 1. This alone will shut down his Sumo Splash and nj. hp shenanigans. Like I said in a previous post, this match up is about who can survive the clock and who has the most patients.
I find myself using unsafe c.hk waaaaay too much. Any advice on breaking this bad habit?
Just don’t do it unless you know for a fact it will score a knock down. I can’t say I never use it in safe manner everytime. I have the same problem as you. I try to score a quick knock down with a random cr. hk, but it gets blocked and I’m vulnerable to attack. I believe even if you do it from a safe distance it will not score a knock down. I mainly use it for whiff punish or jump ins. I’m working on your tactic for back dash punishment also.
I actually don’t find the honda matchup that hard.
nj hp can be punished with sweep
hp and mp headbutts can be punished with slide which leads to untech knockdown.
the video I posted about his wakeup should help.
Option select beats all of his splashes and gives you a free knockdown.
Hp bushin flip easily gets you out of the corner and breaks his charge.
confuse him cross him over many times with bushin and jump with down+mp when he doesn’t have charge. Sweep his Neutral jumps, option select if he is buttsplash happy and punish every mistake he does.
I tried using that lp bushin flip on Honda’s wake up, and it didn’t work out for me. I think I might have got the timing wrong.
if you aren’t sure about the timing, try bushin flip and neutral jump hk to continue pressure. It jumps over splashes and they can’t headbutt
All you people saying that the Honda matchup isn’t that bad are killing me. It’s not that bad if I use Gouken, I have NO problems killin that fat fool w/plasma spam. Haven’t tried punishing his neutral jumps w/sweep, and which OS works best? OS Tatsu I’m assuming?
if he uses splash a lot, I use slide optionselect. safe jump slide for examble
break his charge constantly and move around a lot. you won’t win if you try to chip him slowly or turtle.
also U2 is the ultra choice here.
So against Honda’s that are downbacking and reacting to whatever you do, you say the matchup isn’t that hard?
the match agaisnt dhalsim must be really tough too.
There is too much guy can do. Honda cannot just sit there and wait all day.
I’m looking to add option selects into my game. I’ve seen a few in various threads around these boards but can’t remember where to find them. Can anyone direct to where I might them or possibly give me a break down of the more useful ones?
Sim CAN be tough, b/c it can be an absolute pain to get in w/o meter. Once I get in though, the fun begins =D. Sim is pretty free on wakeup, and I’d much rather fight a turtling Sim than turtling Honda. I’ll dive more into the Honda matchup after my offline endeavors this weekend though…interesting viewpoints and strats have been dropped over the last few posts.
Adapted from a post I made somewhere else:
Introduction to Option Selects- OS101
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Go training mode. Set Guy as your character. Set any one as the dummy (except (Sagat, Blanka, Cammy and Adon). Now stand full screen away from the dummy. Jump upwards and do a neutral jump MK (or HP*) when Guy comes down from his jump and is at around the head level of standing opponent. Then press d.HK once you hit the ground. Now do this a few times. Memorise the timing. What you’re trying to do is memorise the timing of nj MK> d.HK when your nj.MK MISSES the opponent.
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Now stand infront of the dummy so that your nj.MK will hit the dummy. Do the nj.MK> d.HK at the exact same timing you did just now. If your d.HK doesn’t come out, then you’re doing it right.
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Now that you’ve got the basic OS timing down, its time to practice it in a real match situation. Set someone (not Sagat, Blanka or Cammy, cause their wake up is a bit slower. Not Adon, cause he wakes up faster. Not Ryu, or Akuma, cause their uppercuts can’t be safe jumped… Feilong is quite ideal for this) as the first character and Guy as the second character. Set Guy to RECORD. Now hit them with this combo- s.MP>s.HP> Slide, then IMMEDIATELY do aneutral jump MK while holding back after you’ve started the neutral jump, then input the cr.HK option select.
Now switch back to “Replay” to test if you did your safe jump right.
If you did your safe jump right, in 1 recording, your OS should be able to do ALL of the following:
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Fei Long does an Uppercut on wake up> Guy blocks. Troubleshooting- If you get hit by the uppercut then you’re either doing your safe jump too late or pressing your c.HK too early. You need to press cr.HK AS LATE AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT IT BEING A NJ.MK> c.HK COMBO IF YOUR NJ.MK HITS
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Fei does a backdash. Your sweep catches him.
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Feilong blocks/gets hit. Your sweep won’t come out. (At this point as Guy, you will be able to proceed to combo into something like c.LK, c.HP or do a tick throw)
Practice by switching back and forth between dummy and first player until you’ve memorised the timing.
Important Note on Neutral Jump HP
*Nj.HP has a lot of wierd properties which get ignored by the Guy community as a whole.
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Against some characters Nj.HP will hit them when their crouch ONLY during their wake up animation. This is perfect, because the safe jump after slide timing guarantees that your Nj.HP will be done exactly during their wake up animation. Characters like that include- Feilong, Balrog, Rose and Honda… And yes, Balrog, Rose and Honda are both 3 of Guy’s hardest match ups. Doing Nj.HP instead of Nj.MK against them helps alot because HP has more hitstun (which allows for more dangerous frame traps), more damage and more stun.
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Against some characters, Nj.HP will hit them on their wake up animation AS LONG AS THEY AREN’T LEAVING THE STICK ON NEUTRAL. This means that, if they hold backwards to block or hold down to crouch, the Nj.HP WILL HIT THEM. This is huge and most people don’t realise this, because when they try out safe jumps in training mode, the dummy is obviously LEAVING THE STICK ON NEUTRAL. In real life, however, no opponent is going to leave the stick on neutral on wake up. Characters like that include- Ryu, Akuma, Ken.
agree 100% with that sim statement =) but your block strings and baits have to be extremely on point to win that match.
I guess the same can be said for Honda but he doesn’t have a 3 framer and he has tons of reversals to bait and punish.
I’m not saying its easy by all means… Im just saying its not 7-3 hard.
I BELIEVE even if you are on point with block strings, Honda’s Ochio Throw kills you from up close, but that’s something I need to verify or have clarified for me. And I will definitely say this freaking matchup is 7 - 3 in Honda’s favor. Yeah gimme turtle sim over a turtle honda all day every day; again I say, the matchup is bad but I’m not stressin over it anymore. Pick Gouken = MUCH better chance of winning, even vs. good Hondas.
Oichio doesn’t have invincibility and has a 5 frame start up. It’ll lose if you’re on point with your block strings.
Ex Headbutt will hit you though.
That or I’m continuing after Run >> Stop w/more pressure foolishly. Thanks for the frame data.