if you do the runslide safe jump you shoudn’t get hit if you just block, but if you do an OS you’ll get hit because the OS will still come out since your normal whiffed and basically you’re going up against a 6 frame gap before their DP is active. You can safe jump by manual timing normally crouch for 1 frame (training mode learn the timing its rather quick) Then neutral jump or you can spend 2 bars by doing FADC backdash into a jump forward.
Reason why some say do hp into crouch tech is if they don’t immediately crouch low after the hp you can get an easy confirm. It can happen sometimes or you can go for a frame, j.hp wait a moment, cr.lk or throw.
Most Cammy, Sagat and Blanka players who know the matchup will just try to throw you as you land, or maybe do DP > FADC if they have meter and doubt your matchup knowledge. Do you could do empty neutral jump > LK tatsu to beat that (risky but it does work). Although it negates the whole OS idea of the neutral jump, you can also use whiff air grab mid jump to delay your landing by 1 frame, or right before you land to delay by 2 frames (for example you can use this to avoid Guy’s own ultra 2 - as Blooddrunk once showed me)
But against the rest of the cast, it’s a 4 frame safe jump. This means that your opponent wakes up 3 frames before the nj. HP connects. If they do a quick low profile move to avoid it, then you should cr. tech to be on the safe side and obviously if the nj. HP connects then cr. LK will come out and link after. But what if they back dash? Well you should train yourself to react to what your opponent does in those 3 frames after they wake up. Sweep or EX hozanto will both work nicely after a whiff nj. HP.
There is no OS to cover all bases, so you either have to make a guess and go for it, or train your reactions to be able to punish different outcomes.
3 Frame dps can punish you if you attack but not if you empty jump, hey wake up. You have 4 frames of landing frames, IF you attack you can’t block until the landing frames complete, let alone move, but if you empty jump you can block on the 3rd frame. Chances of someone low profiling the nj.hp though is pretty rare. Though some character can remain at neutral and they button will whiff Gen and Guy for example.
…I was talking about landing frames. I also explained why you’d get hit by a 3 frame DP. I also don’t think they wake up 3 frames before your attack connects but no if you neutral jump and don’t press anyhing you can’t be hit by a 3 frame DP.
Again - I didn’t say they wake up 3 frames before hp hit, Nebbiez did. That’s why I questioned how that could be true since that would mean you’re still in the air on the third frame of a Shoryuken… nevermind.
Ok now that you mention it and I think about it, I was wrong. But likewise, 4 frames of recovery after a jump attack whiffs sounds wrong. How would the attack connect if they do nothing, yet if they do a 3 frame DP you get hit but a 4 frame DP you can block? That would mean the attack connects on the same frame that you land from the jump, which certainly doesn’t appear to be the case as if they wakeup and block/get hit by the attack you can see yourself suspended in the air still in the attack animation. shrugs
Either way, you can’t safe jump attack 3 frame DP characters and it is still possible to visually react to wakeup backdash in this situation.
There’s a video that explains it and I explained it as well. When you do a jump you have a period where you can’t block when you land, when you attack that period last longer than when you empty jump.
That’s the only reason I queried Nebbs on the “3 frames before n.j.hp hits” remark. That means the oppoent can start an attack for at least 4 of your airborne frames (3 before n.j.hp hits, the 1 minimum frame for n.j.hp to strike). Then there are the 2 recovery frames on landing in which you can’t move after an aerial, so it would be the 7th frame of your opponents reversal at which you could block.
And those first 4 frames you are still in the air, so in that instance a 3-frame SRK would hit you even if you didn’t press buttons since no blocky in jumpy.
On the subject of safe jumps - I only recently read the frame data for n.j.hp to know that it has 4 active frames. Because the animation doesn’t recede I was presuming it lasted longer, which would explain why I’d have to tech throws after landing. It made me question whether throws had some invincibility frames going on or something.
And also, is it possible to use j.f.lk or j.n.lk for baiting anti airs? 4 frames before they start up, 8 active frames - and for both part of the hit box lays outside the hurtbox. For starting combos this might be pointless, but after checking the hitbox against Guile’s crouching hp, it does seem like there’s a space above Guile’s hitbox that the lk could wedge into for a counter hit. I can’t really dummy this since I can’ set training mode to anti air me with a specific move on 360, but I do believe they could be used to shave off a little health and make your opponent second guess their timing, or aa move.
I wasn’t thinking to use this to make jumps free, but for match ups like Guile where you might be using jump simply to limit chip damage from a fireball game.
EDIT:
But my data is limited tbh - I can’t view the progression of hitboxes on moves where it significantly expands or decreases over time.
I’ve been thinking of maining Guy and decided to run through his trials to get an idea of inputs etc.
But now I’m stuck on trial 21, although I’m probnably missing something very basic.
(cr.l, cr.l, cr.l, bushin gokusaken)
I always push myself too far away after the third jab. Any help?
And I guess while I’m here, is there any point me learning him now before ultra? I am assuming he won’t really change fundamentally, but it’s probably best to ask in case.
cr.l kick has +5 advantage on hit and like many moves has different push back properties compare to performing the move midscreen, within the corner or against the corner. I would never advise you to do 3xcr.lk into BCC in a real match because the link between cr.lk and the initial lp is harsh. My best advice is to try and cut push back frames as much as possible by hitting the 2nd and 3rd cr.lk as soon as possible (they start up in 3 frames, making cr.lk into itself a 3-frame link). You can essentially cut 2 frames each time from the hit stun animation. It may not seem like much, but in trials, it’s typically enough. Also try to change up where you try the combo from. Typically people attempt trial combos in the corner, but if your opponent can’t move backwards (because their in the corner) you wont necessarily be pushed towards the middle by an equal amount they would have been pushed back. I think it has to do with how far your move pokes, the game inhibits your hit and hurt boxes from passing a specific point, hences a HZO in the corner won’t push Guy to mid screen like a HZO at midscreen will push an enemy to the corner, yet his poke(y) cr.lk will push him farther back in the corner than it would push the enemy back at midscreen.
It’s the reason certain subtle links in combos within Capcom fighting games work midscreen but not in the corner. Unlike MVC3, SF4 won’t give you a heads up about which trial mode combo only works in the corner, or only in midscreen.
Are you making sure you chain the jabs, rather than simply link them? That’ll keep the opponent close enough to connect Bushin Chain (it’s still possible after simple links but still). And yes, only do this for the trial, because the damage scaling makes it not so good in real games.
Guys methods of approach remain the same, but his tools have added consistency, so in Ultra he will be more comfortable. Those with a good ground game will be rewarded in this version.
As for defense, the only thing to keep in mind is that his cr MP is no longer the godlike AA that it is in 2012. Use far LK and far HK instead, those two are buffed. Air throw and EX hurricane pretty much remain the same situation-wise.
So yes, learning Guy in 2012 is still a great starting point.
He’s doing an armor cancel, which he cancels EX Run into either EX Bushin Flip, Super or Ultra, can only be done on the very first frame of EX Run.
it depends on what you are battling, cr.lp hits mid so moves that go over lows it’ll have use there, cr.lk has farther reach but hits low and is 1 frame faster.