Nebbiez, I’ve had cr.mk whiff punished by far.st HK. Using the normal slide is also dangerous for the same reason AND because he can walk forward really fast, making you hit the slide with the earlier active frames= easy punish. He can also easily bait the slide with his walkback speed and sweep punish Guy’s HK slide whiffing.
HE can also go full screen and do really low air fireballs, letting him recover in time. It’s true that getting him knocked down and under pressure can lead to his death but - with a high level Akuma who also knows how to block, and with Guy’s not so ambiguous knockdown pressure (throw setups aside) the situation typically gets reset and he can start spamming the sweep again, especially with that ultra stocked.
Let him have his vortex, but don’t make it brain-dead for him to get that knockdown is all I’m saying. I’d really like his sweep to be -10 so we can punish it with ex hozanto.
Edit: as for the teleport escapes, u dont even have to OS them, just run slide on reaction works.
Guy’s character design in sf4 is about getting pass fireballs tick throws and pressure.He is stoppable in every way possible the new delay wake up will change vortexes to be almost useless but will allow them to keep pressuring.
The answer to a player who can block really well is combo into hard knock down and use more grabs.Guy’s walk speed is not the best but he can still walk in and out of character’s grab range best after a run/slide to grab,cr.short,overhead or far St.mp/mk them.
How is his design about getting passed any of that? And Akuma is not a block-heavy character, and Af0 didn’t even describe him as one. What are you talking about bruh?
I hate this match up so much because of how quickly you can slip into sweep range and you immediately have no opportunity to slip back out: as soon as you leave a block string and try to jump or walk back you face the active frames of a frikkin sweep. His Demon Flip annoys me because the recovery frames and positioning never put you in a sensible place to punish on a whiff. If you’re not too far away to hit him, you’ll take to long to get there and eat a DP for your troubles. Akuma should not be so cosy after a missed Demon Flip!
"with a high level Akuma who also knows how to block"I didn’t say anything about akuma being a block-heavy character or really talk about which character just vortexes in general got nerf in usf4 really badly and you can grab abit more.Just re-read it i guess.Guy has like 5 ways to get pass fireballs which shuts down every fireball heavy character he is design/made to that.Kinda odd info but Ex run/slide beats cody’s ultra 2 clean if the slide it still active.
Exactly - Akuma’s design seems to be “setups for big damage and low to no risk.” Guy’s not a character who can dp into ultra - allowing Akuma to roam free more or less, despite having less health. And I already mentioned how dangerous it is to attempt to fight Akuma in the footsie game. I’m still not convinced we should do anything apart from try to get the life lead and play evasively once he’s back to neutral.
I genuinely thing the worst thing an Akuma player can do in a Guy match is use Ult 1 - I don’t mean pick it, but actually use it. Guys floaty jump is PERFECT for this Ult. You’re so frickin slow that even if you jump early and Akuma tries to catch you on the fall, you can still hit him with an j.:mk: and hit him out of it into a full combo punish or FADC into Ult1.
…or U1.
If you jump back on reaction you will ALWAYS be in position to snap U2 on landing.
But again, I’m just musing. I will make my peace with the walk speed and quick start up sweep and how ridiculously easy it easy to be stuck in it, but I abhor the fact Demon Flip out prioritises Bushin Flip, not just on grab-v-grab, but on block stun, spacing and recovery.
I’ve been having a lot of fun as Guy recently, and after reading through these forums it seems like I’ve actually been going in the right direction with 'em, unlike DeeJay. My biggest question is about the mix up game. I’ve seen a lot of players, like Marq Teddy and his mix ups, but like I never seem to go for things that complex. I think the most crazy thing I do are light air recoveries with run stops and more pressure. That combined with just elbow, run stops, bushin flips, switching from slides to over heads, and just simple pokes. What about you guys, any crazy set ups or pressure games?
Marq Teddy’s style seems to be all out offense, to not let the opponent breathe. While it works against those who arent too familiar with Guy, in higher levels, opponents know how unsafe Guys moves are and react/punish perfectly.
The way to play Guy solidly (or any other character for that matter) is to download your opponent. For example, if you use true blockstrings such as cr LP x2, step back every once in a while to see how your opponent reacts to pressure, does he do spam techs? Then throw in frame traps like cr LP -> cl MK. If he does late techs maybe go for whiff punish or a delayed TC. If he does mash dp during your strings, step back and watch the do whiff. Decision making is a skill you must develop as you play.
Did you ever see that Rufus player DSP play against the spammy Ryu player Gandhi in Dreamhack? That Rufus lost because hes too focused on what he wants to do, rather than figuring out what the Ryu wants to do and reacting accordingly, hence he made all the wrong choices. Poor decision making.
And Guy needs good decisions, because he isnt a braindead vortex character, or a character with safe specials and cancellable non ex-DPs.
Well put, that’s definitely something I should start working on. I played a lot of Guy today against a friend of mine, but I seem to always have the bad habit to try and pressure with Elbow. It’s not the safest thing, I know, but it seemed to be getting in his head when I would cr. LP x 2, J, elbow, repeat, throw in a throw, a quick over head, a run stop, something like that. I’m trying to think of what else I can use to keep the pressure game going. I know run stops are great and you mentioned using the cr. LP x 2 as a block string and then back up, but against a grappler I’m a bit nervous of how the outcome would be.
You’d want to zone out grapplers with your furthest pokes (far MP/MK/HP/HK, cr MP/MK). Take the life lead and let the timer do the work, Guy is risking at least 30% life or even the entire round simply by attacking grapplers.
However dont throw pokes every chance that you enter your attack range. By being predictable in your strike pattern (extending hurtbox pattern) the foe will whiff punish (example: far LP xx EX hand) or even throw a riskier SPD to scoop you up and swallow you like choc chip orange ice cream. Walk forth and back, switching up normals, to make your defense unpredictable. You could also sit back and build meter with LP bushin flips, that really oughta rattle the foe.
Make your opponent aware that you’ve got nothing to gain from attacking them and happy with chillaxing full screen away. Remember that the opponent will eventually have to go in to regain the life lead, so be patient and have your defense prepared.
I like the sound of that. I’ll be sure to try and use that the next time I find myself in a Guy v grappler situation. I’m wondering if I should work on practicing anymore set ups though, for non-grapplers. Ways to keep pressure safely, but still effectively. There have been too many times recently where I get to heated and tend to repeat the same mix up patterns. Need more options, haha.
I’ve been watching videos and reading a few things here and there, and I think I have a few questions to ask.
When you have your opponent in the corner and you’ve knocked them down (let’s say with a RSL combo). Is the forward jump, MK crossup/elbow drop character specific?
Apparently some characters (including Guy himself) can lower their hitbox with crouching attacks and dodge the 50/50 entirely. Does every character have attacks that can “duck” like this?
I am trying to learn basics that work on everyone, so I am not going to focus on things that won’t work every time, any place (at least not yet).
I’ve seen players (on block) TC xx Run > Stop, then go right into another TC, or into a st. MP xx Run > Stop.
You’re left negative after Run > Stop, aren’t you? Why aren’t people just tapping Guy out of the pressure?
Feeling like the biggest scrub ever. I just got done playing for the day and I get man-handled game after game. One particular guy was giving me lots of trouble. This Ken kept applying pressure with FADC > kara throw. In fact, he kara throwed a lot, but I couldn’t ever tech it even if I knew it was coming. He also does neutral jump HK tatsu, I get hit by it. He does EX cross-up tatsu, I get hit by it. It just seemed he bull-dogged me the entire game and I tried many things to reset the momentum. For you Euro players it’s TakkumaKim (360). Any insight?
I remember this Ken and I certainly remember the cross up ex tatsus…If he’s kara throwing a lot, you shouldn’t always “tech” the throw, cos he’ll still be in your face. Just jump back to avoid the throw game and restart the neutral game. This is where you can use st.Mk to frustrate Ken if he’s approaching you from the ground. Secondly, if he’s jumping in with normal air tatsu, I think st.HK works well as anti-air.
You know what, I always see people mention to use st MK with Guy and I never understood why. I never seem to beat out other pokes with it. Any ideas or comments as to what st MK can actually do and why it’s so good to use?
You should look at the hitbox data and that should help you understand why it’s very effective. It recovers quite fast and has decent range to say the least. It’s a good keep out tool, with minimal risk if not abused.
Oh please, not TakkumaKim! I have double perfected that guy so many times that he insta-kicks me if I try joining him now. Not to mention he sends salty hate messages too. This guy is NOT a good Ken player at all. He doesn’t have a clue about the Guy matchup so he just does stuff all the time - step kick, kara throw, neutral/forward jump tatsu, YOLO DP, etc.
Without seeing your games I won’t be able to say specifically what you’re doing wrong (because he almost certainly isn’t doing anything right!). The reason you can’t tech the kara throw is because you’ll be cr. teching during the startup frames of the step kick, so you will cr. LK and he is throwing you out of that. Either learn the delayed tech timing for kara throws or give him an LK tatsu to think about. All of Ken’s crossup air tatsus can be caught with cr. MK (EX requires careful timing or will whiff in wrong direction) or low profile under with cr. LK. Some ballsy Kens go for crossup EX tatsu > ultra. But if you duck the EX tatsu with cr. LK and they go for ultra anyway, you will recover in time to block and fully punish the ultra.
I’ll try the cr.MK suggestion for the EX tatsu cross up. I’ve been doing EX Hurricane myself and I’ve whiffed every single time. Glad to know I’m not the only one he sends hate messages to. He calls me “random” lol. Come to think of it, every single button I’ve pressed felt 1-3 frames later than usual. That might explain me not being able to tech throw his kara throws. Thanks for the insight!
Well, since I just read a huge backlog of posts (haven’t been in this thread a while…), I’m going to turn back the clock and ask has anyone ever checked out OS’ing the bushin flip on wake-up? Would it catch backdashes, or is it too slow?