^Yet another reason Freiza arc was the series peak
Frieza’s the peak and yet power ups are the most unearned in the Frieza Saga, but no one talks about that.
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Blazblue, GG, BBTAG, that one hentai turned fighter. Those are all anime and they suck. Only Marvel gets a pass for an acceptable Anime game.
I mean hey you are wrong, but nobody talks about it because the arc is still good lol. Besides, the most important power-up is very much earned anyway.
What are we even considering earned in this case? Deserved? Hard work?
I’m any case I like DBZ up until the end of Cell saga and the various different movies, but after that I lost interest.
Actual training?
Kaioken was some bullshit, but Goku did spend a whole ass year training for it.
Saiyan Zenkai boosts was just: Vegeta jobs. Then he recovers and tries again. Kills enemy. Someone stronger shows up. Vegeta jobs again. Repeat until Freeza makes him cry like a bitch.
The fuck?
Really, I’m wrong now? Okay, tell me in what way the Zenkai powerups (aka the powerups that directly led to Vegeta stomping the majority of the Frieza Force and Goku eventually achieving Super Saiyan) are earned? Especially when you consider that Zenkai as a whole is all but unused the entire rest of the damn series.
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Vas in top 8
try to told ya
Sorry it was supposed to say “you aren’t wrong”. It’s why I didn’t even try to argue it
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I’m going to be clear. As much as people love to say the fights are better in the original Dragon Ball and yada yada, ultimately any fight in the series and really any anime, TV show, movie and what have you means nothing without proper emotional context and beats.
The actual reason the Frieza Saga is incredible, despite the absurd amount of free powerups given all over the place, is those said emotional beats and the context of the story. The tension of Krillin and Gohan essentially having to sneak around in enemy territory, Vegeta striking back at the oppressive tyranny of the bastard that killed his entire race and planet, the struggle of the Namekians now sharing a very similar genocide and Goku embracing his heritage to avenge the people he never knew because of Frieza.
Nothing comes close since because realistically you can’t write anything with that kind of emotional weight anymore in the series, it’s all been covered. All that was left really was Gohan finally reaching his full potential in the Cell Saga. But no villain and story outside of the initial start of the Goku Black Arc in Super (which would’ve equaled the Frieza Saga had they not botched literally everything past the midway point) will come close because there’s no more real growth to be had.
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DBZ and by extension Super fall apart with the quickness the moment you stop treating it like a saturday morning cartoon where you watch buff dudes beat the hell out of each other.
The power creep is ridiculous, (Super makes it even worse. Super Saiyan Blue showing up outta nowhere right after Red was treated like a big fucking deal was stupid as fuck.) you can count how many characters get real development with your fingers and the jobbing is utterly rampant.
We got legit wastes like Piccolo, Gohan and literally nobody learning the Kaioken except Goku.
I don’t care about Kaioken at all it looks lame and the “rules” are circumvented whenever the plot demands it.
Zenkai boost is trash and Vegeta using it to deliberately to gain power is the lowest point of his otherwise good character arc. Actually sad lmao
Goku earns Super Saiyan tho. I’ll die on this hill.
Black Arc was one of the best arcs.
Kinda says a lot tbh. What were your issues with it?
Why the fuck Trunks dipped!?
It’s funny you say they botched Goku Black arc because that is exactly where I stopped watching Super. I realized I didn’t care about anything happening and dropped it right after Black uses Rose.
Hard agree on the rest. Exactly how I feel about DBZ.
Eh, it’s a valid claim.
I agreed with you tho. 
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Oh I see what you meant lol
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I feel as though Tanden Engine should have been a part of Seth’s base toolset and gotten something else for his VS1.
Powerups
Here’s the thing about both though. Zenkai by itself is such an immense copout it’s insane. But it works for the Frieza Saga for two reasons. The generic reason is, unlike literally the entire rest of the series outside of the King Piccolo Saga in the OG and the Tournament of Power in Super (both of which had their own bullshit powerups but both share the same reason as the Frieza Saga) the entire cast had zero time to actively train. Once Goku arrived on Namek (and Piccolo to a lesser extent) that was it. No more training could be had and anything they had was all they got. The problem is that the series even as far back as the OG had thrived itself on escalating threats that were far beyond what the characters could initially do. But since they can’t train to make up the difference, what can be done? The answer is, throw a random powerup so they aren’t fucked.
The second reason goes back to the thing about Vegeta. Vegeta intentionally abusing the Zenkai to catch up to Frieza is a low point…but that works. He’s desperate, so much so he has to ally with allies he hates a smidge less than the Frieza Force and willingly throw away his pride and let the guy who had him dead to rights at the end of the Saiyan Saga basically “kill him” so he could go fight Frieza. So often in the arc he isn’t the haughty Prince of all Saiyans but a man who simply just wants to avenge his people by any means necessary.
As for Goku, he did earn it…emotionally which was my earlier point. Becoming Super Saiyan was far more about Goku embracing his heritage and lineage than a strict powerup. It’s him saying “I am a Saiyan above all else” at that very moment in time and the transformation was a fantastic way of visually representing that. He can be afforded the freebie because of when it happened and how it was presented.
Goku Black Saga
Half the arc was fantastic. The beginnings were legitimately compelling and greatly written. The actual mystery as to what was going on, the sheer dread of Goku Black, the tragedy of Trunks and his timeline becoming even more desolated and the reveals. Everything was superb. There was just one problem. After the final reveals that lead to the final confrontations (Goku Black and Future Zamasu vs Goku, Vegeta and Trunks) they ruined nearly everything else. From the whole “Potara now is only temporary on mortal beings” (though…I guess kudos for actively taking advantage of a potential loophole the Buu Saga had put in) but mainly the ending. All they had to do was simply end it on Trunks being victorious with the Spirit Sword. It was the perfect ending. Vegito weakening Fused Zamasu and revealing that his indestructible nature is now fucked up by the Fusion and Trunks’ final hope with the people of his timeline backing him up to Save the Future once more. The Diabolous Ex Machina that happened afterwards made no sense and is so actively against what the entirety of Dragon Ball is about it’s absurd.
It’s honestly absurd and it shows how much sticking an ending matters. If we end on Trunks winning with the Spirit Sword, I would say the Goku Black Saga is actually the pinnacle of Dragon Ball Sagas even beyond the Frieza Saga. Even with shit like Super Saiyan Rose (though to be honest there was a ton of potential ground to cover on Body Swapping that Ginyu really never took to the fullest potential so I can live with it).
Welcome to half the cast of SFV.
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Well since you all talking DB anime you open the door to a think I was thinking of yesterday after for some reason being shown by YT clips of the 2nd and 3rd WMAT arcs.
I have always preferred vanilla DB over DBZ and those clips made me realize why. DBZ turned using KI into a joke.
Using a KI move in DB was a big fucking deal. In DBZ onward they throw and deflect KI like it’s nothing, they cheapened it.
I mean, this was a big moment.
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I never considered Yamcha learning the Kamehameha a big thing because he learned the Spirit Ball first. So we already knew he had an affinity for that type of thing.
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