I’m gonna have to disagree and say Chicago Bears>>Dallas Cowboys.
um yea like that would do anything.
maybe we should all start playing fps’s seriously. Thats where the real money is at.
DITTO…!!
I would have to agree with whoever said that people need to stop being lazy if they want the scene to be better. That’s true for life in general. Also, I think if you want to get more exposure, you have to have your scene unified in your area first. You have to crawl before you walk as the saying goes. This is more true of Atlanta than anywhere else maybe. Since our arcade scene died and we played console while it was, which probably helped it. But I think I should have tried to create an association here years ago. Me and another player here feel it is hard to get even the SRK people here motivated. That’s probably one of the biggest problems gamers have. Or being uncommitted and un-unified.
On another note, people bitch way to much about new games being released. Sure, if another SF came out, with high resolution graphics and/or other technical upgrades, of course people are going to be on it like white on rice, me included. But if it ended up playing bad, it will get dropped like CFJ. But I think I could play 3S for a long time, cause the game is that good. Of course, I wait for new games to drop all the time. Companies need to make money, so they should. But I’ve never heard so much bitching by a genre of gamers. Like you never hear professional pool players or other types of games like poker or sports bitching that the game is too old. If I like the game, I will play it. I’m not going to switch to fps games cause that’s where the money is. To be honest, I would bore myself to death. That’s like doing a job just for the money even if you hate it. Why kill yourself like that? Do what you love. Most big sports or games that were popular before the video game scene grew because of love for the game, not money, because there were points when people played for the love of the game before all the money and fame came. So keep the faith people and have fun.
that aint gonna solve shit! SFEX was created… that shit was garbage…
anyways back to the subject… i think 3S has the potential to revive the whole community IF promoted right… i’d definately donate money to someone who has promotion skills… to promote 3S! if 10000, or 20000 other SRK members would donate @ least $1 to a representative… we’ll get somewhere… now OUR first step… who would best fit this category of representing/promoting??? WHO?? 
I have played Street Fighter 2 when it was really popular, but I didn’t get into fighting games until recently (I blame my former roomate for that). So here are some views of a total scrub for the scene and also parallels to the DDR scene that I am very well a part of.
I see the same problem with DDR as you guys see with fighting games. DDR has a cult following, but it isn’t part of the mainstream for various reasons:
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Looks hard - When they see someone on the machine doing some hard song, they immediately dismiss the game as something too hard to start off with. In reality, the hard songs are hard, but there are easier difficulty levels for people to start out with for their first time.
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Takes too much time to look good - People seem to think that it takes too much time to become good when, in reality it takes only a few weeks of playing to move up from light to standard mode and a little longer to move on to heavy mode. After that, it’s just refining technique that ends up just “happening” unconsiously. This happened to me and I have seen this happen to other people as well.
There are several things that have been done to combat that. For one, we give them words of encouragement and even help them choose a song that is relatively easy to play for n00bs. Another thing that has been done was make clubs out of it. Just this year, a new club officially recognized by Purdue has been formed to promote DDR and the scene. While we haven’t done much of a good job of it thus far, we can learn from our mistakes and improve on it.
As far as the fighting scene goes, I can see the welcoming arms in the forums but seeing really good people in the arcades is VERY intimidating. Losing is a fact of life, but when not given a chance to defend yourself is a very sad fact. Taking some elements from the DDR scene, you can suggest easy characters to play and basic moves or something. And as bad as it may seem, you might want to let them play the computer for a bit so at least they have somewhat of a chance if you happen to be very good. Also make yourself open to questions as well. You don’t have to physically say it, but body language does help.
Also, exposure does help as well. Just putting stuff on forums only gets people that are in the scene already. But doing things like posting on other forums not just related to fighting games might bring in some fresh meat. Also, for those of you currently attending college, you can make an official club for it. In most cases, it’s pretty easy to start a club but each college is different.
It is hard to be welcoming in the fighting scene than it is for DDR since your performance relies on your abilities vs. whether or not the other person is good. But it still is possible.
the game you guys are looking for is SSBM. Fun for the casual gamer, but also has high level gameplay hidded within
That is true, but there is one problem with that…It’s on the Gamecube. I love the Gamecube and everything, but I do know a lot of people that dismiss the Gamecube becasue it’s a “kiddy” system.
But since the Revolution will be online with SSBM, then it might gain some popularity.
From earlier, in another thread -
Since I seem to have a fair amount of time at the moment, I’ll let you guys know where I stand and how I see things.
1.) Arcades are not what they used to be, if they even exist anymore. Simple fact. If you find some arcades, what do you see these days? Video slots and poker, redemption machines and racing games (for the most part). I even saw one arcade convert most of its area to a mini golf course. Why? Consoles and PCs of course. Why spend $0.50-$1.00 for a game that you might not even play for 5 minutes? Why spend your time playing in some place, where you can play in the comfort of your own home?
2.) The variety of Capcom games isn’t what it used to be 10 years ago (up to even 5 years ago). Imagine, in 2000. You have SFA3 which was still warm, 3s was causing a slow stir. ST was gaining popularity, finally with the advent of SRK. And MvC2 is probably the best competitive game the scene has had. What do we have now? Capcom Fighting Jam, and the same games in 2000 that is still being played. While still good games, all the fighting games are beginning to show their age.
3.) The FPS games have name brand sponsors is because the sponsors have something to gain. Think about it - with computers, 60fps avg is a sweet spot that is coveted by many. So yeah, ATI and nVidia are going to sponsor competitions, because in the end, they know those same people will go buy the best card out there, to get the highest FPS possible. And since THOSE games and computers are always becoming more advanced, there is always a market. Same with AMD and the RAM companies. They all have something to gain. What does a company like Capcom have to gain? They already took your money by buying the game. Arcade doesn’t count since they sell on a per machine basis. They can’t sell you hardware, they can’t sell you the next fighting game because it’s not a real moneymaker for them (since they refuse to push the envelope on some of their franchises). Don’t tell me shit like pads and sticks, since most of us have them home-made anyways.
4.) The scene isn’t what it used to be. As most of the original community in the scene are getting older and so on, (getting a real life, career, marriage, kids, etc), there isn’t really a fresh influx of players anymore. Many of those in the original community are the innovators of the scene - throwing tourneys, making vids, doing as much as they can. And guess what? When they leave, no one in this community is willing to take over and improve. Now I know there are a few who are doing their best, but it’s few and far between. I don’t count the so-called “infighting”. While there is bound to be animosity between the some cliques on the fighting game community, there was no denying the passion they had for playing the games.
5.) Online gameplay is the present, and future. Hate to say it, but it’s true. Tecmo is doing it right. In DOA Ultimate, you can virtually wait in line to play someone while watching their current match, you can get invites from other players to play. DoA4 seeks to improve on that greatly. Capcom’s attempt at online play is laughable at best. Namco’s is practically non-existient. If the other companies would get off their ass and follow Tecmo’s lead, then maybe this community will experience some sort of Reniassance.
I was part of the ddr scene when it was at its prime, about 3-4 years ago. The reason why it’s not popular anymore is because the same people won all the score tournaments and the fact that Konami didn’t release anything after extreme. As far as style, people figured out how tacky it looks on the machine and some of the better freestylers I know have moved on to real hip hop dance. It was a great casual game to play because you could easily pace yourself with the songs, but competitive-wise, pretty much everything has been done. It’s not like most other competitive games because in DDR you’re just going up against the steps.
This is where cold, hard reality sets in. I look at GOTFRAG.com, and I see a nice site that gets updated pretty often. With that said, it does take a commitment to develop and maintain a site like this, or SRK - it takes time. While some of us have time to do this, sites like SRK cannot be done even WITH the advertisers - we simply don’t get the sheer amount of traffic that a FPS-based site would get.
In terms of invididuals, I really can’t speak for Justin, since he’s like 9 years younger than I was. As for Choi, and Watson - they really can’t commit to the scene. Choi was able to do it a while back - remember, he’s one of the founders of SRK, but as you get older, the less you can do. Even though he’s one of the most successful players ever in the US community, the money he makes from it is FAR from ideal, and we’re not even going to mention what some guys in FPS-land can make. As far as I’m concerned, people like Choi and Watson are draws - they are what people come to tourneys for… to watch them play. I can’t speak for Watson, but Choi was instrumental in this site, improving relations with Japan in order to enable Japanese to see the benefits of coming here, and doing countless things.
Keep in mind - the SF (fighting games in general)community started as grassroots, and remains as such. You can’t offer something for money when it’s readily available for free.
But all of this won’t matter if the games aren’t new and fresh. You tell me; where are all the new fighting games at, and why aren’t they more accessible to all? Where is Capcom’s great game, and why does their Xbox matching system so lacking? Why is Soul Calibur 3 and Tekken 5 only on PS2, and NOT online enabled? Where is Guilty Gear and it’s online capability? Why did Mortal Kombat turn into a platformer? While some of the games are questionable, I’m going to single Capcom out. They keep rehashing characters, recycle animation, and try to call it a new game. Capcom has a shitty matchmaking system on X-box live. They still don’t listen to their audience… and their games are dated. I haven’t touched a Capcom game in quite a while - it gets boring after playing for 5 years, ya know?
While Tecmo has DOA4 coming out, and while it may not be the best fighting game out there, they try to be innovative, and they do things right with Xbox Live. And guess what? I believe it’s the best fighting game overall due to its efforts and features. It sure is the prettiest, and it blows Capcom, Namco, AND Sammy out of the water (in terms of graphics).
I’ve pretty much given up on fighting games getting big. I’ll play DOA4 online, and I’ll play my Slash… but I’ll stick with FPS if I want to get any farther in the competitive scene. 
It’s really unfortunate, because Capcom did it to themselves. All the companies did, really…
I’m going to throw out some interesting statistics…at least to me:
Best selling fighting games on PS2 (in america as of October 2005)
- Dragonball Budokai (1.73 million)
- Mortal Kombat 5 (1.4 million)
- Tekken Tag Tournament (1.36 million)
- Dragonball Budokai 2 (1.24 miilion)
- Tekken 4 (1.22 million)
total: 5.834 million fighting games sold on ps2 (at least…this isn’t even counting mk6, dbz3, sc2, etc).
Note: GTA Vice City (best selling game on the ps2) = 6.686 million.
Highest ranked fighting games on ps2 (according to gamerankings.com)
- Virtua Fighter 4 Evo/Soul Calibur 2 = 92.2%
- Virtua Fighter 4 = 91.3%
- Tekken 5 = 88.8%
- Soul Calibur 3 = 86.4%
- Tekken Tag Tournament = 85.5%
Note if we take out vf4 from #2 spot and bump everything up then #5 would be MK5. However I think EVO is different enough from VF4 that it should remain a separate game. Also note that I did this on the fly looking up fighting games on gamerankings for ps2 and could have easily missed something.
Highest Selling Street Fighters on PS2:
- Street Fighter EX3 = 260,000 (69.1% on gamerankings)
- Marvel Vs Capcom 2 = 246,000 (75.7%)
- Anniversary Collection = 240,000 (79.5%
- Capcom Vs SNK2 = 180,000 (75.7%)
(was there anything else released on ps2? thats all i could think of)
Random note: Smash Bros = 3 million (90%)
So whats all this add up to mean? Comparing most sold vs highest rated we don’t get that much overlap. Tekken Tag and almost MK5 are the only 2 games that do it. Dragonball is a force to be reckoned with but seems like the reviewers don’t like the games however no one is listening to the reviewers on that one. Reviewers seem to love VF and (vf4 = 660k) Soul Calibur 2 (786k on ps2 alone) but American audiences can’t really find it in their hearts to play these games competitively both prolly having the worst sign ups for Evo (thats just a guess I would have to go back and look up the entrance #'s.)
People are buying fighting games - almost 2 million for DBZ1 alone is just crazy. Lets throw that one out and say the name dragonball drove all those sales, MK5 still sold a gazillion on its own. People are showing up…they just aren’t sticking around.
Street Fighter across the board sells horrible and is reviewed horrible. Street Fighter 3 is probably the best looking Street Fighter and it’s still ugly in comparison to everything else out there. To the average kid who did not grow up in the snes days - SF3/CVs2 look cartoony and like kids games. And hell…if he is going to play a kids game why not play smash bros - 3 million sold and reviewed pretty damn well.
If you compare Street Fighter 2 and the latest game…CFJ (hurts me to type that) I 100% think World warrior looks better. However…look at Quake 4 compared to Quake 1 and there is no doubt in anyone’s mind which game came out more recent. Capcom needs to step up to the plate and make good looking games before they do anything else. I don’t even want to hear the king of fob fanboys tell me how graphics mean nothing and gameplay is everything, cause when you are staring at something on a tv, graphics DO matter. They aren’t 100% but they are the first thing people see/notice not nuances of how low forward is shorter in this game versus that other game.
So while I think the community could really buck up and do more I think it’s also Capcom’s fault for dropping the ball and releasing shitty game after shitty game after shitty game.
Also random aside: is there any other genre where the highest ranked games aren’t also the most sold and considered the ‘key’ games of that genre. I don’t think racing fans are upset that GT4 gets such good reviews and sells so well, but 80% of the retards here on srk are upset about DBZ and Smash bros doing as well as they have. Then again…maybe racing fans are upset about GT4 and I don’t even know it.
Derek
That was a great post Omni. Thanks for the sales figures and general opinion. Really puts things in perspective about the fighting game genre.
I also think FPS comparisons are not necessarily all that valid, considering a large driving force in the continuing popularity of many FPS games are the mod communities that have spawned around them. The fact that new maps, new models, new gametypes greatly extends the life of a game.
Also, while the internet isn’t flawless, a spike of lag affects a FPS game much less than it does on a fighter. FPS games, while precise, don’t suffer from dropped frames as heavily as fighters.
I think proper internet could help fighting games a lot, for I don’t think arcades in the conventional sense are ever going to be popular here again without being reimagined into something entirely new.
The attitudes of the players I also find to be an invalid arguement mainly because many of the other thriving communities (Madden/FPS games) are full of people with egos just as large, just as abrasive as your used to seeing in fighting circles.
Also to say that companies would make a 2D fighter if the demand was there is a given, but is there really a demand? Currently the thing in console games is how games can become more realistic through the use of better graphics. 2D games, in all genres are suffering from the trend. So to say new games would solve the problem is nice, but it’s just not going to happen in any way stronger than what we are seeing, so new games are not a feasible solution for a community. (Unless we get into the business of making games ourselves.)
Through the internet the arcade experience may be able to be rekindled, though it would need the work and efforts of companies like Capcom and Microsoft to be able to provide a service in which this could be possible. Currently there just isn’t the demand for these sorts of games. So this is also not a feasible solution for those at SRK to undertake, unless we’ve got some expert coders around.
The complexity of games does indeed hurt some gamers, since they want to be able to sit down and play along with their friends from the get go. Not win, necessarily, but they want to be able to play along with their friends and not feel as if they are playing two different games alongside one another.
Also having a larger middle class of players would help as well. Many people here are probably wanting to cultivate a scene for players to get better and have high level play, and many dismiss those who aren’t going to attempt to master the game. Many people are only going to play when they want, and not dedicate themselves to a game merely because it’s not something they want to dedicate themselves to. If there were a larger group of more casual players it would probably help newbies and the middle class of players alike. Sure it would be nice if they all wanted to get really good, but in general a lot of people play games to be fun, and competitive play is something that only a hardcore subset undertake.
So while discussions of new games and/or internet is nice, it’s not really options that people could really get behind and do anything about. (Since I doubt if every person here signed a petition for SF4 and sent it to Capcom they’d even bat an eye. They’d just make Devil May Cry 4 or RE5 and make a lot more money.) So the disussion really should be more about how to get new players with things that we already have, as opposed to what may come down the pipeline to save the fighting genre as we know it.
This has got to be the best post in this thread; everyone needs to take a serious look at this.
For one thing, the answers to many of our questions are in the FPS community. By looking at how they do things and taking those things we have in common, I think we’d be able to see what we could do to make things better for our community.
Also, sure, we could talk about how Capcom has dropped the ball, or how the arcade scene is dead, or how fighting games will never be mainstream, or even how we don’t have online play, but guys, all those things are beyond our control. As a “small grassroots community”, as someone put it, we have to work with what we have. Arcade scene is dead? Fine. What can we do there in the few arcades that are left? No online play? Ok. What are other ways can we get more gamers together? Not newb-friendly/few newbs at all? Alright. What are better ways we can show others how great we think fighting games are?
There also happens to be a lot of politics for a community so small. If everyone were to set aside their differences (2d vs 3d, empire vs everyone, ssbm vs “true” fighting games, etc.) and combine their resources, I think you’d be suprised at the things we could accomplish. Evo has done this to a large extent, but I think everyone agrees that even more could be realized. If anyone has seen the movie “Alexander” or knows about him, he and his father turned a region feuding over trivial matters into something much more (ok, not a great example, but all I could think of). An empire (no pun intended) combining and mixing the elements of many cultures for the betterment of all. There are examples of this throughout history. Something to think about…
Man. Wizard, Javi, and Omni pretty much post the most valid information.
While the fighting game community (especially here) is at an all time low, I think it can be revived. Tournaments/Events need to start catering to all of fighting games. No matter how lame they think the game is. There are tons of players the only played one game exclusively (i.e. MvC2) and branched over to other games. After you watch a game so much, it intrigues you.
For Capcom games, there needs to be new games (Yes, GAMESSSS). It all boils down to that. New games draw interest and excitement, and make old games somewhat new again. But as a whole, there needs to be new fighters. There are a couple (Melty, KOF, Fist of North Star, DOA4) and they need to be used.
People need to embrace new people and players. They also need to respect(to some degree) their opinions on games. Like the DOA community(even though they are full of idiots). Sure, we all might think it blows or isn’t too great, and I know for a fact that most of the people who bash it, have played it for 5 minutes. But they actually try to get people to play. I’ve even heard they try to hold tournaments, and the game is online. That’s using best of both worlds.
Speaking of online. It’s the future. But it’s definitely not the death of offline tournaments and events. If anything, it should help. The average person would say, “why would I go to (insert), when I can play them online?” But they don’t know the experience like most of us do.
There’s nothing like playing a guy right next to you. Events are loud, fun, funny, smelly, and overall great. You can play games, make cash, kick ass, get high, get drunk, get naked, party, play games, get your ass kicked, see a new city, meet a girl and get rejected, and play more games.
Online gaming is here to stay, and would really help Capcom if they had a better online gaming set up (I.E. DOAU). All of those FPS games are online, but their big events are not.
But overall the community needs people to step up. The O.Gs are…well… older now. They don’t have the time. The new kids gotta step up and help. Do whatever it takes to get people interested in fighters. Trust me, it can happen. I mean, SRK is a prime example. Just think about this community a few years back.
Actually, Smash Bros is another good example. A few people got together, made a site, started some buzz–now look at the result. They have a good (or what it seems) community. I heard a handful of the best U.S. players went to Japan, met up with the top Japanese players and participated in a tournament. Sound familiar?
Slap me silly, but DOA might be next. With the big advantage of online play, and a community that is still young and trying to get people involved. Who knows?
~Born to Play~
I can not speak for John Choi or Mike Watson, nor do I have anything against them, however Justin has done far more for the FGC than most people know. Even right now he is still working on trying to push a community in which some of the gamers in it believe to be dead. Take my word for it.
I hope that fans maintain a strong underground scene. New games will allways be made and in time, there will be a game that captures both the hardcore and the casual gamers. But that would be useless if there is no solid community to build around. But seriusly why this need for fighting games to go big?
Building a scene around doa4 would be a very bad move, btw.
We all have love for the underground scene, obviously, or we wouldn’t be posting on SRK to begin with. Well, the reason we are doing this is to build a solid community. Which is not so solid now. What is the problem with games going big? You can make money doing something you love to do. That’s why we want it to be bigger. Plus if it’s an even larger community it becomes even funner and more fame. It’s just like any other competitive genre. You got people who love games, that if money and fame were gone, they probably would still be doing it, but if money and fame are there though, no need to get rid of it.